Friday, August 6, 2010

Did Tim Deal Fabricate the "Hand Rape" Document?

[Update, Friday, August 6, 2010, 4:20 AM]: On today's Lew Rockwell site, I have an article about the Eric Echols case. The more we can get this message out, the better. [End Update]

On Wednesday night, in response to my Wednesday post, an anonymous poster left the following comment:
I work in a jurisdiction close to the LMJC and have had an opportunity to testify in court there. I've also talked with Det. Deal about this allegation: "yet he was willing to fabricate a document". This is an outright lie. It's easy to throw this allegation out there without corroboration. It's as proposterous (sic) as the allegation that there was an audio feed for the state's witnesses. This has never happened in any case I've been involved with.
Obviously, when someone accuses me of lying, I need to take the accusation seriously. I certainly don't claim perfection in my writing of my posts, although I would like to believe that my errors are unintentional. However, this person (who did not wish to identify himself or herself) has accused me of fabricating a story that is about, well, an alleged fabrication.

All of this has come about because the attorneys for Tonya Craft claim that Tim Deal illegally manufactured the "hand rape" document that suddenly appeared in the case files during Tonya's trial. Specifically, it dealt with the claim made first by Sandra Lamb's "child actress" daughter during her testimony on April 14, which I have discussed at length in this post.

The importance of this testimony and this claim is not, I repeat, NOT in the claim made by the child that Ms. Craft performed what would be called a "hand rape" with all of her fingers and her thumb. The girl actually made that claim during an April 1, 2009, interview with Holly "Thumbs Up" Kittle. (I do think that it was appropriate that she made this claim on "April Fools Day," given that had Tonya done what she was accused of doing, there would have been substantial medical harm done to the child, none of which was found in any medical exams.)

However, during her testimony, the girl claimed that she had told Suzi Thorne during her June 4, 2008, interview at the Greenhouse, that Tonya had performed the "hand rape," a claim which set a number of other things in motion, including testimony from Sherri Wilson and Sandra Lamb that had not been in police documents or other interviews.

Thorne herself claimed that Lamb's daughter told her of the "hand rape," but she never documented it, which would seem strange, given that up until then, the girl had not "disclosed" anything even close to such an act. In other words, in a real forensic interview, this would have been equivalent to striking the Mother Lode, and we are supposed to believe that no one would document such a moment. Right.

To cover herself, Thorne claimed that a detective was present, but she couldn't remember who it was, which also was strange given that she told the court she had conducted more than 1,000 interviews, many in the company of Catoosa County detectives. For her to claim she could not remember who was in the room definitely makes me a bit suspicious. Tim Deal was not at the Greenhouse that day, and, instead, the detective who was present was Steven Keith, but the "hand rape disclosure" was not in any of his notes, either.

Obviously, the prosecution was in a pickle, but, not to worry, as a few days later, the documented "notes" that were allegedly written on July 7, 2008, and allegedly typed on July 27, 2008, were "discovered" in the case files. Deus ex machina!

It is important to note some things. First, the defense, in a May 17, 2010, letter to U.S. Attorney Sally Yates, signed by Dr. Demosthenes Lorandos, claims the following about the document I have mentioned:
My specific concern is that Exhibit C and supporting testimony appear to have been fabrications and fraud upon the citizens of north Georgia, in an effort by the Detectives, a Children's Advocacy Center Interviewer, two witnesses and the State Prosecutors to obtain a conviction and subvert justice in this matter. If I am incorrect in this concern, I owe several apologies. If I am correct in this concern, serious crimes have been committed. (Emphasis his)
The letter goes on to say that this particular document was not in any of the case files, reports, interview DVDs, and the like. They say it simply was not in any of those things, but that it suddenly appeared.

There is another point I believe needs to be made here, something I hold supports the defense theory. When Tim Deal suddenly came up with the document (that he claimed to have had in the files all along), the attorneys and prosecutors had a meeting in the chambers of "judge" Brian Outhouse. During that meeting, Dr. Lorandos made the following specific requests to test the authenticity of Deal's document:
  • That they would be able to have their own and state "experts" examine Deal's computer and the computer from which the document came in order to see if, indeed, this material was printed on the day that Deal and the prosecutors, "Alberto-Facebook" Arnt and "The Man" Gregor were claiming;
  • That the judge would allow the defense to have experts test the ink on the original document to see if it was recent or had been printed when Deal and the others claimed it was printed.

Readers will be shocked, SHOCKED to know that Outhouse refused all defense requests. In fact, according to one observer, Outhouse asked Dr. Lorandos is a demanding voice a question along the lines of, "Are you claiming that we in the LMJC use fabricated documents?" to which Dr. Lorandos allegedly replied, "I did not know that you were part of the prosecution's team."

Indeed, as any observer of the trial will tell you, "judge" Outhouse was no judge at all, but simply part of the prosecution, doing the bidding of Arnt and Gregor, watching their eye and hand signals, engaging in unreported ex parte meetings with them, and trying to rig the proceedings. I believe that the ashen expression on his face when he saw the jury's verdict tells us everything we need to know about his attitude and his behavior during the trial.

It seems to me that had Tim Deal been telling the truth, he and the prosecutors would not have objected at all to have an expert check the ink dating and the computer from which the document came in order to verify that it had been produced in 2008, and not during the trial. That they strenuously (and successfully) objected tells me that these men had something to hide, especially, since NO OTHER NOTES AND DOCUMENTS of that time -- and I have them in my possession -- mention anything about this so-called hand rape and its alleged "disclosure."

Yes, I have made a serious allegation against Tim Deal, and if I am mistaken, then I have done him a grievous wrong. It is not my intention to do wrong to him; however, when I see the facts laid out in front of me, and when I apply simple logic to the situation, Deal's story, and the prosecutors' stories, simply don't add up. They don't make sense, and when I see people in that situation not making sense, knowing that they lied elsewhere and that they suborned perjury, I tend to think that they are lying about this document, too.

I would welcome Deal or anyone else associated with this case to prove me wrong. However, I don't think anyone in the LMJC is up to the challenge at the present time, and that does not surprise me.

59 comments:

Doc Ellis said...

Greetings Dr Anderson,

I have linked this to my
BikerorNot blog line at http://www.bikerornot.com/docellis124
and I tweeted this to
Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/docellis124 , to
MySpace at http://www.myspace.com/docellis124, and to
LinkedIn at http://www.linkedin.com/in/docellis124
Thank you for writing this

Doc Ellis 124

Anonymous said...

Simple fact - the hand rape never occurred. There would be SUBSTANTIAL medical evidence and serious damage to the child if it did. Nothing of the sort existed and the allegation was false. So even if some document in fact existed, they knew what the document recorded to be fabricated. Either way, the attempt to introduce such "evidence" at trial was in fact suborning perjury, perjury, and fraud.

volfan69 said...

Mr. Anderson, if you have time, will you read the article today in the tfponline (local/region) Craft's private investigator's assualt case dismissed? It's written by Joy Lukachick. The information is very confusing to me. What a tangled web...
Thanks, Bobb

Anonymous said...

Bill

I am sure you arent that surprised that another member of any court system in the state of Geogia would post something saying no person has ever done anything like this in a case they were involved in. Maybe they were lucky or ignorant both which is bliss where the LMJC is concerned. If you are a prosecution team in Catoosa County with a 98% conviction rate, sometimes you have to tell a lie or two or pull evidence out of thin air to protect your stats. With immunity from being convicted of anything yourself, whats to stop them. It is surprising to me that there are a few out there still trying to protect their reputation as prosecutors. This person lost their credibility by calling you a liar for merely reporting the facts in the case. You didnt have to make it up, its all there in black and white. Read the transcripts anonymous and then you can say it has happened in a case you were involved with.

John

Anonymous said...

Bill stated, "It is important to note some things."

Heh...ain't that the truth.

You should probably just ignore anonymous posters making unsubstantiated claims.

Anonymous said...

Complaint Form, Georgia Judicial Qualifications Commission:

http://www.gajqc.com/media/Complaint%20Form.pdf

KC Sprayberry said...

Nice form from the JQC. One would wonder if 'horrified onlooker' for relationship to the case might get the attention of the board. Especially if they received thousands from people who watched the trial unfold across the country. And maybe the bar association would stand up and take notice if they received copies. Ah, I'm just dreaming. The paperwork would probably disappear, just like the letters sent to the AG during the trial. This is beyond ridiculous. No wonder judges and prosecutors in this state think they can do as they want.

justiceseeker51 said...

This has turned into one, if not the most, bizzarre cases ever to be made public. I do not see how Tonya has withstood the stress. She must have the 'Faith" of Paul! It stresses me out, just reading about it, much less living it. If there were more Tonya's in this world, this world would be a better place.

I WILL continue reading, and Thank you Bill for bringing *Sunshine* to this area. If there is anything an out-of-state person can do, Please let me know.

justiceseeker51 said...

Just ran across this 'Teacher Fired Over Facebook' made me think of Facebook arnt. It's in GA too.

www.reputationdefenderblog.com/2009/11/13/teacher-fired-over-facebook-profile/

Anonymous said...

Well there they go, should have known someone would say you lied
can't be one of those crooks in the LMJC who lies, But if it was one of their kids it would be different. I can't stand any of them they all lie..

Anonymous said...

Couple of points about your post. Saying someone fabricated a document is pretty intentional. It's an outright accusation to forgery.

You said you applied simple logic. Most people would call what you have done as making assumptions. You make these assumptions to fit your theory. Lorandos and your self both qualify your allegation with an apology (" if I am mistaken, then I have done him a grievous wrong").

There is only two ways to prove this point. 1) Test the document and 2) ask Deal. You don't say you have tried to do either. It's easier to just tell a lie.

What you have done in the last two posts is no different than what you have accused Deal of doing. Not thoughouly investigating and making the allegations fit your theory.

Oh the hypocrisy.

Cyril said...

Anon 9:39

Your critical thinking faculties here need a little sharpening. Lorandos DID ask to test the document, and this was denied by Judge House and not offered by the prosecution.

Dr. Anderson, as a commentator, is drawing a conclusion from two patently apparent pieces of data, that a reasonable person observing a decidedly questionable prosecution and trial that the appearance of this document out of thin air along with the refusal to allow the document to be tested is rather suspicious.

Since you are close (apparently) to the prosecution, you don't admit that this entire process has been at least questionable (I would say unjust). But just because you don't recognize it doesn't meant that just about everyone else who isn't close to the prosecution or the accusers hasn't seen this for a long time.

And frankly, it scares the rest of us to death? How many of us could afford to pay a cool half million to get exonerated from a false accusation? If every link in the chain is corrupt we are all in serious trouble. I know - for a fact - that there are people who worked with the prosecution on this who NEVER thought she was guilty. If you can't convince people on your team, how strong is your case?

All it takes is for someone to have a grudge against you or an ex-spouse fighting for the kids and you have a child-abuse allegation. The presumption of guilt must stop.

Anonymous said...

Amen, Cyril, I could not have said it better,

Mary Jane said...

Anon 9:39

I am sorry to say, but you must be one of the following:

(1) Mr. Tim Deal himself
(2) Someone who is too naive to see the obvious
(3) Someone who is as dishonest as Mr. Tim Deal

kbp said...

Anon 9:39,

“Couple of points about your post. Saying someone fabricated a document is pretty intentional. It's an outright accusation to forgery.“

Bill is not anonymous, therefore, if the claim is that he slanders and defames another, that person can file a lawsuit (of course discovery would start much sooner if Bill did not go for summary judgment).


“You said you applied simple logic. Most people would call what you have done as making assumptions. You make these assumptions to fit your theory. Lorandos and your self both qualify your allegation with an apology (" if I am mistaken, then I have done him a grievous wrong").“

The jurors will make a few “assumptions” also, as any must with circumstantial evidence. I can’t speak for Bill, but anyone reviewing what took place leading up to introduction of that investigative summary, allegedly completed by Det; Keith, must leave open the possibility that many others could have fabricated it for Deal to stuff into his file. He is just the most likely suspect, of a few in which one or more are guilty.

As for “assumptions to fit [any] theory”, the facts known lead to the conclusion that the document was fabricated. Make a better argument if you have one.


“There is only two ways to prove this point. 1) Test the document and 2) ask Deal. You don't say you have tried to do either. It's easier to just tell a lie.“

The computer and the original document printed are not available, as House made sure of. Deal has had the opportunity to answer, but instead he is hoping he’ll avoid testimony somehow.


“ What you have done in the last two posts is no different than what you have accused Deal of doing. Not thoughouly (SIC) investigating and making the allegations fit your theory.

Oh the hypocrisy.“


There is nothing more that can be investigated until discovery comes into the process.

If you are a part of the LMJC, or any law enforcement, all should worry for their safety, as you certainly lack skills necessary to review case evidence.

justiceseeker51 said...

AMEN to you kdp!!!

Anonymous said...

KC Sprayberry,
The JQC certainly would take notice of thousands of complaints about a particular judge, including those made by a "horrified onlooker."

To initiate a complaint about any lawyer in this state, including prosecutors and ADAs, you file a written grievance form with the State Bar.

Here is the link to that form: http://www.gabar.org/public/pdf/cap/cap_intake_form.pdf

The JQC and the State Bar have no power to do anything to correct abuses by judges or lawyers unless and until someone submits one of these forms.

William L. Anderson said...

To the 9:39

While Cyril pretty much shot down your pathetic attempt at applying logic, let me finish what he started.

First, I have emailed Tim Deal and he refuses to answer, so I doubt seriously that Deal would want to talk to me, but I have made the effort.

Second, as Cyril and my own post noted, the defense asked to test the document and the prosecutors objected and Outhouse (of course) gave the prosecutors what they wanted.

I will turn this back on you. If Tim Deal was telling the truth, why did he not agree to give the defense the document and let the defense examine his computer to see when the document was created and printed? It would seem to me that he would want to demonstrate that he was not lying, and it would have been very, very easy for him to do what was asked.

That Deal and his friends did not do that and, in fact, claimed that the defense was lying, tells me that these are not honorable people. I would love to see at least one person in the LMJC who is honorable -- one person.

I hear people say, "Oh, so-and-so who works in the LMJC is honest but he or she doesn't speak out because of fear of retaliation or losing the job." So, that is proof of honesty? I don't think so.

To me, the LMJC is so utterly corrupt and utterly hopeless that there is nothing that can be done. Now, they wear nice costumes to work and have nice tin badges, but costumes don't make one honest.

I would challenge ANYONE in that system to demonstrate integrity in a public forum, not in a private conversation. So far, I have not seen one example of integrity from any of those people, and especially from the judges and Buzz Franklin's office.

If anyone can demonstrate I am wrong, I would love to hear about it. But the 9:39 did not do that. Not even close.

Abraham said...

We all know the jury got only a tainted view of the truth because of the biased and inept judge.
Yet 12 people still decided that Deal along with the HAG tag team lied.
That's enough for me to ignore the 9:29.
Yet I could add that way before the Tonya situation, Deal had issues with past employers and unimpressive to say the least.

mac said...

thanks Dr. Anderson. Please keep going.

Kerwyn said...

Others have replied to Anon quite well, I will add this.

Deal, UNDER OATH, testified that his "case files" were in the same condition today (the day he testified) as they were a year ago. Lorandos asked him that question several times. The document in question was NOT in the case book.

Prior to trial, due to the prosecutors dragging their feet on discovery, Lorandos and several of his staff went to Deal's office and photocopied EVERYTHING in his files... You guessed it, the paper was not there.

Now, in a miracle worthy of the Lord himself; AFTER Lamb blurts this hand rape out on the stand with her story of walking down the hall, holding Suzie Thorn's hand and "suddenly remembering" the hand rape. Suzie Thorn who followed on the stand a few days later said she was in her office writing notes when Lamb appears in her office door and tells her. Of course it is not documented in complete disregard to ANY kind of common sense let alone acceptable industry standard guidelines. Of course Suzie Thorn "can't" remember WHICH detective was sitting in her office supposedly a witness to this (there are SO many in Catoosa county, amiright?) And then lo and behold, after Thorn testifies, MommaLamb and Wilson both testify that BabyLamb told them this in the driveway on May 24th. OH wait, we forgot to tell ANYONE about it (not even in the first interview with Keith) and of course BabyLamb COMPLETELY forgot about it for the first 3 interviews which all took place within a few days of that "revelation".
Well Hell, whats a prosecutor to do? All these claims on the stand and not ONE SCRAP of proof. Enter Deal to the rescue. OH LOOK your Honor, we JUST found this document. It must have fallen down behind the desk or something, my bad. Funny how that document up until THAT moment had never been turned over in Discover, found when the defense went to Deal's office and photocopied ALL his files or mentioned anywhere including ALL the depositions that were taken. Funny how the supposed "hand rape" was NEVER mentioned by BabyLamb until April of 2009 and funny too when she remembers it for Holly Kittle, she can't keep the story straight. Let me add, when she is "remembering" this for Holly Kittle, she also tells Holly that Tonya would WAIT for Sandra to be pulling into the driveway and then "slapped me really hard" and "Well, she always said that I've been bad at her house and anytime my mom called and said she was coming to pick me up, before I even left when my mom pulled in the driveway she would always hit me." When asked where, "On my face, she hit me hard on my face."

Ya, mom isn't' going to notice a big ASS red hand print on her kids face? Please..

The child is a stone liar. I can't even give her manipulated memories since (just to add to the fun here) she quotes lines from her movies in TWO different interviews...



Please Anon, if you believe stuff like that, I got some land I need to get rid of.

Kerwyn said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Won't this document (or its absence) come under scrutiny during the civil trial?

William L. Anderson said...

The phantom document, indeed, is mentioned in the suit. It will be interesting to see how the federal judge treats this situation, as opposed to "judge" Outhouse.

volfan69 said...

Mr. Anderson, thank you for the update and the link. That is one of the strangest cases I have ever read...it was settled, no court record, but it was settled...

That is so strange. I just don't see how these people get away with all of their under-handed actions! I just hope the good citizens of the LMJC will vote in November. I know in my heart that there are many people there that are good, law-abiding citizens. I wish I could do more for them. However, in TN we had that Basil person running for gov and senate and many people voted for him...maybe over 3,000. How can you think of your vote as a joke and do something like that? I just don't understand. I appreciate you and all of the good posters on this site. Thanks, Bobb

volfan69 said...

Excuse me, I meant to ask if anyone has heard from Trish and how it went for her son. I hope all is well with them and Angie and her family. Thanks, Bobb

Anonymous said...

Everyone read Angie's blog.
Brad Wade Justice..

Anonymous said...

Thank you for the comments. My post's have been in regard to Bill calling Det. Deal a liar.

Cyril:
"Since you are close (apparently) to the prosecution, you don't admit that this entire process has been at least questionable"

Not close, but if I was a defense attorney I would question the authenticity.

Mary Jane:
(1) Mr. Tim Deal himself
(2) Someone who is too naive to see the obvious
(3) Someone who is as dishonest as Mr. Tim Deal

(1) No
(2) No
(3) Doesn't apply to either.

KBP:
"investigative summary, allegedly completed by Det; Keith, must leave open the possibility that many others could have fabricated it for Deal to stuff into his file. He is just the most likely suspect,"

Guess that's what Tonya was, the most likely suspect.

"original document printed are not available"

They are available now, what has Bill done to secure these to prove his claim.

Bill:
"If Tim Deal was telling the truth, why did he not agree to give the defense the document and let the defense examine his computer to see when the document was created and printed?"

My experience in criminal cases is the lead officer is nothing more than the main witness. He/she has no say in the direction of the case. Deal could not have agreed without the Prosecutor's consent. Probably wasn't allowed to speak in the attorney conference. He would also have to get the Sheriff's approval first, which he is not going to give.

"I would challenge ANYONE in that system to demonstrate integrity in a public forum, not in a private conversation."

You also know that's not going to happen for a multitude of reasons. Mainly because you are set in stone on your position. Kind of like a Democrat talking with a Republican on political points. What you feel is important concerning child abuse and what the LE community as a whole feel is important are global poles away.

Kerwyn:
"OH LOOK your Honor, we JUST found this document." I'll just highlight the WE. If you were so sure that it was Deal you would have identified him specificially.

"acceptable industry standard guidelines"

I don't believe you are associated in anyway with LE or child abuse investigations. If you are I feel for the detectives that have to work with you because your opinion is definately unbiased.

Anonymous said...

I said all that to say the assumption that Deal lied is just assumption. It's a lie to claim differant.

Oh the hypocricy!

William L. Anderson said...

Hey, 9:31,

Kerywn has testified in court more than 500 times in sexual assault cases, some involving children. So, you obviously don't know about her.

By the way, she is very good at what she does.

What is this crap about what I "feel is important concerning child abuse and what the LE community as a whole feel is important are global poles away"? What I "feel" is called finding the truth, not the lies that we get from the CAC or the lies that we get from people like Tim Deal. False accusations are a serious problem in this country, but LE sees false accusations as an opportunity to throw innocent people into prison.

Even if Deal was not part of the decision-making about checking the authenticity of the document, he was part of the prosecution team, the same team that jurors said lied all during the trial. The same team that suborned perjury.

I am amazed to see a troll on here who actually defends "testilying" and other such shenanigans of prosecutors and police. And you are right about not showing any integrity.

People who don't have integrity surely are not going to show it in any forum.

Oh, WHAT hypocrisy? I believe Tim Deal lied and fabricated a document. Why is it so shocking to claim that a cop lies and fabricates stuff. It happens all the time in this country, and you know it.

Anonymous said...

The idiot anon 9:31's writing style and catch phrases are remarkably like those of a troll who regularly sides with Sidney and Crystal Gail Mangum over at justice4nifong?! Go back to your other bridge you troll

Anonymous said...

Bill:
"this crap", "but LE sees false accusations"

You've lumped all law enforcement officers in one pool. Proves my point about your position concerning child abuse. False allegations do happen. LE does everything possible to determine the truth. At some point when there is no physical evidence it comes down to which version of the story you believe.

"but LE sees false accusations as an opportunity to throw innocent people into prison."

Of the thousands of officers I know I don't know one who says I'm putting an innocent person in jail today. Contrary to what you may believe.

"Kerywn has testified in court more than 500 times in sexual assault cases, some involving children. So, you obviously don't know about her."

Why post under an alias? And I don't believe the court count.

"I am amazed to see a troll"

I'm trying to engage in a mature adult conversation and you go all middle school on me with the name calling. Usually happens to someone when they can't intelligently defend their position.

You and the other posters on here are no differant than the over weight guy sitting at the bar who has never played a down of football, took a turn at bat, or shot a layup. But he still critiques Brett Farve for how he throws a ball. Entitled to his opinion but it has no value.

The random posters need to get involve with their local law enforcement to learn what the real world is like. Most offer a citizens police academy or ride along program.

justiceseeker51 said...

Anon 10:58
You should go to your local sheriff's office and try to get help. They will talk and agree with what you say and then deny you the help. Like happened to me, they said they couldn't do 'Babysitting'.

My brother ended by dying that night...after being SHOT by a Police Officer for NOTHING.

A yellow-bellied coward is what the officer was and is.

Yes they lie. It's just one big cluster of people, that went to school together, college together, joined the same clubs, still being 'childish' after they have become of age. Their own little 'clicks'

I also took 2 years of Criminal Justice and what I saw 'sickened' me. I stopped after the last semester and said Good Riddance.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:58, I post here occasionally. I haven’t posted recently. Like many basically law-abiding folks who have had little experience with Law Enforcement, I believed that the police were there to help. That they, and the “law”, were friends of the citizens.

Eight years ago, in a state other than Georgia, I found out differently. I have been extremely disappointed by the actions of the prosecutors and law enforcement officers and investigators of the LMJC in the cases of Tonya Craft and Eric Echols. Probably also in the cases of Brad Wade and others. The rush to judgment on the part of Law Enforcement has demonstrated, sadly, that my experience in another state is not idiosyncratic of that state.

I am disheartened by Dr. Anderson’s pessimism about prosecutorial misconduct in general in this country. I would like to believe otherwise, that my experience was as an anomaly. Unfortunately, reality is what it is.

A reader from Atlanta

kbp said...

Our troll wrote, in response to quotes of only selected portions of my comment;

KBP:
"investigative summary, allegedly completed by Det; Keith, must leave open the possibility that many others could have fabricated it for Deal to stuff into his file. He is just the most likely suspect,"

(A) Guess that's what Tonya was, the most likely suspect.

"original document printed are not available"

(B)They are available now, what has Bill done to secure these to prove his claim.


(A) A crime had to be created for Tonya to be a suspect. Wouldn’t that make her the target of a fabricated theory, instead of the “likely suspect”?

(B) The “original documents” are not available, only copies. So how would one check the ink to determine anything by using a copy of a document in question?

You won’t even get a ribbon for participation with comments like that.

:)>

Victoria said...

If the troll isn't Deal then certainly he is one of his LE buddies and all this criticism of the system and LE has hit a nerve with him. There is a serious lack of logic and reason in troll-clown's analysis of events. He would be better to continue talking sports at the bar and leave serious discussions about the justice system and government to the grown ups. I really do hope this ignoramus is not in a position of power, but unfortunately for the public, his mentality is just the sort of type that is attracted to LE, justice system, government, and public policy careers. Bill is exactly right when he points out that the widespread perversion of the system is due in part to the immunity from prosecution and personal responsibility of these public servants.

William L. Anderson said...

Sorry, pal, Kerwyn's figures are accurate. Like all sycophants of LE and prosecutors, he dismisses the facts because he doesn't like them.

As one who for many years has been following and writing on LE and prosecutorial misconduct, I am extremely pessimistic about the state of "law enforcement" in this country. One problem is that the police are becoming increasingly militarized, while prosecutors are only trying to win.

The problem of false accusation in this country, especially in the area of "child molestation," is just huge. It used to be that LE and prosecutors would use some discretion, but because there is so much money coming into the system from the federal government for "disclosures," all caution is abandoned. It's about the money and it is about "winning." For false accusers -- and especially women in domestic disputes (although men sometimes make false accusations, i.e. Joal Henke) -- it is about getting money AND control of children.

As far as I am concerned, the entire system is so broken that it cannot be fixed. That is my view, and none of you have to share it, as most people don't like being THAT pessimistic. (Heck, my wife does not like my pessimism.)

We adopted three children from overseas (Guatemala and Ethiopia), and I ask myself what kind of place did I bring them, a place that champions injustice and wrongful arrests and incarceration. We might say that the USA "has the best system in the world," but then we should be asking ourselves why the USA wants to trade a good system for something that would better fit in a Third-World dictatorship? In my view, it is because American police and prosecutors would rather go by the rules of the old U.S.S.R. than by the rules of decency and fairness.

And, yes, many police brag about lying on the stand and getting wrongful convictions. Telling the truth no longer matters, so why tell the truth when a lie brings the results you want?

Kerwyn said...

To Anon,

As someone who enjoys putting really bad people in prison, it would be mightily stupid of me to reveal my real name on a web post where any 10 year old could Google me and trace me.

I really don't want to be woken up one night with one of the said bad people pointing a gun at me to get even.

Duh........

Fortunately for me however, Bill knows who I really am as do a few others here. Unfortunately for you, I do know what I am talking about, I have reviewed this case in great detail (something I actually get paid to do now and again) and the obvious lies and manipulations are so glaring, even you would see them.

Go buy a transcript, read, learn then comment.

Dan said...

These are people who we entrust and empower to protect our rights, our freedoms and to whom we turn for justice when injustices occur. They swear an oath to faithfully execute this duty and to represent the interests of all the people they serve, which includes those accused of crimes as well as the victims!

There is nothing remotely defensible when these people so blatantly and egregiously abuse that trust and power, break their vows, then hide behind the very shield we provide them to protect us.

Anyone defending the well-documented actions of the LMJC in the Tonya Craft case (or any jurisdiction for that matter), is a cowardly, depraved cretin with no compunction placing personal gain ahead of truth, morality and justice, then have the effrontery to deflect accountability and pretend to be as white as the driven snow.

Throckmorton P. Gildersleeve said...

To Dan @ 11:09.

Sir, I admire your eloquence and willingness to speak the truth. As President “Give’em Hell” Harry Truman once said, “I tell the truth and they think it’s hell.” Those who speak the truth to power are always attacked, especially when the power is as corrupt as it is in the LMJC. Hitler used the power of the state to punish the innocent because enough “ordinary men” did nothing to protest Nazi crimes against the powerless. These ordinary men would have felt at home in the LMJC, a topic that Dr. Anderson addressed in his 2 August posting, “They’re Just Doing Their Jobs.” Are the LEO’s in the LMJC Nazi storm troopers or SS killers? No, of course not, but the blatant disregard for the evidence that indicated Mrs. Craft’s was innocent and their participation in the headlong hell-bent rush to a conviction, they were “just doing their jobs,” reminded me of some of the testimony at the Nuremburg trials after WWII. Unlike Glen Beck, who suffers from Nazi Tourette's Syndrome, I do NOT see Nazism everywhere but the Nazi’s disregard for individual rights and due process are similar to those we saw exposed in the Craft case or the Salem Witch Trials. Ordinary men helped that process along. However, many “Ordinary Men” and women will no longer tolerate the charade that passes for justice in the LMJC.

jp said...

It is obvious to the most casual observer that Tim Deal is a professionally trained liar who has zero credibility or integrity. The proof is plain to see in the transcripts and videos from this farce of a case. That other liars associated with him would come to his aid is to be expected and no surprise.

Tim Deal lied to the children in the interviews as well as manipulated their answers. This coward even has the gall to manufacture evidence in open court. Clearly he believes he can run and hide behind a perceived cloak of immunity were he is above the rule of law.

Now that the bright, hot light of truth is focused squarely on little Timmy the cockroach and his fellow vermin in crime at the LMJC, we will see how long they can stand the heat of scrutiny on their miserable godless souls…

***
…And the defense also pointed out discrepancies in the documentation, in particular that one of the accusers said Craft put her fingers up her front privates.

Defense: "That would be something you certainly would expect a mother to tell you when she's telling you about what she first heard, correct, the how it was done." Deal: "I would think so." Defense: "But to the best of your recollection, the first time you heard that was here in court, is that right?" Deal: "I think so."

http://wdef.com/news/more_questions_for_investigator_tim_deal_in_the_tonya_craft_trial/04/2010

volfan69 said...

A friend of mine told me he read about a Federal Court corruption case in Northeast Pennsylvania where two county judges are charged with taking bribes. He said that they took almost $3 million dollars in bribes from private prison folks. The judges put almost 5,000 juveniles in detention centers to keep the beds full so that the jails would get maximum state dollars. Do any of you know about this? He is trying to find the article that he read. Thanks for any help you can offer. Bobb

Trish said...

Volfan, thank you for asking. We were delayed again until August 23rd. Hopefully for the last time!!

Anonymous said...

We also adopted 2 children one from russia and one from Romania. Poor girls didn't have any parents to love them. We also thought to bring them to the us would be a good thing for them. Now however I'm not so sure. The whole summer vacation our children had to be by themselves because dad couldn't be around them, ordered by cps, because he is falsely accused, and then maybe after trial in October they might not have a dad at all anymore thanks to our wonderful system in catoosa county "guilty until proven innocent" and unfortunately we don't have half a million dollar for our defense either.

William L. Anderson said...

To the 8:35,

Indeed, I will pray every day that your husband is not convicted, and I hope that the good people who read this blog and who live in the area will support these people when this sorry mess comes to trial.

A lot of people in the LMJC have made a good living, from prosecutors to CAC people, by making and pursuing false child molestation allegations. One would hope that a judicial district that has probably as many or more churches per capita than most places in the world would have people who care about the truth.

Unfortunately, some of the worst liars and frauds in that district are "respected" in their churches. The whole thing just makes me very, very sick.

By the way, in the case that I am pretty sure is the one mentioned by 8:35, Tim Deal played a big role in that one, too. He might claim to be a "pro-life Christian" on his Facebook page, but I will say that some of the hottest places in Hell are being reserved right now for Mr. Deal.

After all, St. Paul wrote that liars and perjurers will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. From what I can tell, Tim Deal is both a liar and a perjurer. Hope you are happy with your handiwork, Tim, for I can tell you that the Devil is thrilled with it. No one does the Devil's job better than you, Tim, except maybe for your friends Buzz, "Facebook," and "The Man."

Throckmorton P. Gildersleeve said...

To Anonymous @ 9:31 PM.

I once had a law enforcement instructor make this statement in a training class: “Search’em. If you find something, we’ll think of a reason for the search.”

That detective later retired as a high ranking and much honored member of the local sheriff’s Department. I think his statement and your anonymous postings reflect the mindset and attitude of most LEO’s today. The constitutional guarantees that protect the rights of the innocent are an impediment to an investigation and must be ignored or skirted to achieve conviction. I have worked in your field and am well acquainted with the lengths some officers will go to in order to obtain evidence for a conviction.

"Of the thousands of officers I know I don't know one who says I'm putting an innocent person in jail today. Contrary to what you may believe."

On that point, you and I agree. However, in a high profile case, with pressure from above for a conviction, the Thin Blue Line in the LMJC pulled out all of the stops to deliver whatever was needed. Hey, the persecution and the judge are already colluding with each other. How hard was it for House to approve introducing evidence cobbled up at the last minute?

Tim “Crooked” Deal personifies the attitude I am describing. Requesting an attorney before being questioned by a cop is not an indication of guilt, as he stated. It is an intelligent citizen exercising his or her constitutional rights, the same rights that Crooked Deal would run roughshod over in order to obtain a conviction. It makes his job harder but so what; a citizen has that right. Sorry if it removes a rail from the train tracks to the penitentiary.

Of course, it’s easier if you manufacture or condone the manufacture of evidence that you are responsible for collecting. Your protest to the contrary, that is exactly what Crooked Deal did. Let me make this as clear for you as I can, Crooked Deal lied. Crooked Deal either manufactured evidence or approved it knowing it was manufactured. It is an assumption because of the way it was produced, introduced and approved during the trial. It does not pass the smell test.

It does pass the “Judge Judy” test, “If it doesn’t make sense, it isn’t true.” The chain of evidence fable presented by Thorn and Deal doesn’t make sense so it is false. Incidentally, Judge Judy is a much better jurist than House. Although her television show is only theater and not a legally constituted court, both sides are treated fairly which is more than can be said about House’s kangaroo court.

"I said all that to say the assumption that Deal lied is just assumption. It's a lie to claim differant."

Yes, it is an assumption. It is an assumption because it fits the facts and events as presented in House’s Star Chamber proceedings. I’ll keep my assumption, which is more plausible than yours. I am not claiming any “differant.” (Sic.) In case you have forgotten, the jury agreed with this assumption.

I have noticed that Alexander Bridge, south of the military park, is closed. I suggest that you scurry back under it and quit while you are behind. Begone ye troll!

BTW, how’s the railroading of Eric Echols coming along? Another example of truth, justice and the American Way in the LMJC! Who was the arresting detective in that little exercise in judicial tyranny? I think I can safely make an “assumption” about Crooked Deal and the 3 Stooges roles in that travesty too.

Dan said...

If you think about it TPG... the shenanigans witnessed during the Tonya Craft trial rose to the level of treason. I am still sick over it all.

All I have to say to folks like 9:31, I have already said. Except (to) - get a grip - This is one case where when one peals the onion, the onion gets bigger!

KC Sprayberry said...

Bobb, the case you're referring to happened last year. Try this link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29142654/
MSNBC did a very good story on the situation, concentrating on the kids whose lives were destroyed for relatively minor offenses during this fiasco. Don't remember the outcome but I'm hoping those judges received the same punishment they meted out time after time while only thinking of padding their wallets.

Anonymous said...

In 1997 I was pulled over in Catoosa County at about 12 AM. I was asked to get out of the car but never got a good look at the officer because they had a light shining in my eyes the entire time. That's the last I remember because I was knocked out, raped, tied up, and placed in my trunk. The back story is that I was dating a CC cop who turned out to have quite the cocaine habit of which I knew nothing about. So I was found, taken to the hospital, a rape kit done, all my injuries documented including bite marks on my back and then released. A few days later I was asked by Deal to come in and discuss the case. He demanded that I implicate a CC cop named Tommy Sisk (whom I was dating). When I told him I didn't see who had attacked me Deal was furious and pressured me for hours-holding me with out food or drink, but I was not going to lie. My father showed up and got me out of there. Just a few hours later I was arrested by Deal for false report of a crime! The judge of course threw out the case, looked at Deal and said, "do you honestly think she bit herself on the back, tied herself up and put herself in that trunk?". After that the rape kit and my medical records went missing. So it is NOT my "opinion" that Deal is a sorry human being, a lier and part of the CC Railroad of false accusation and dirty dealings. Its a fact I I've lived it. I told him this would come back on him; I guess good things come to those who wait and I hope Tonya extracts every cent from this low life and he spends the rest of his life worrying where his next meal is coming from. Tim Deal if you're reading Karma is a bitch aint she?!

Kaye said...

Just when I think I've heard the worst, another event like the one anon 9:58 comes out! The only thing different between now and in 1997, is that in contrast, the judge then didn't openly side with him as opposed to now with someone on the bench like House. I'm glad to hear you speak out about this as I have never heard about this incident until now. Not surprised that the evidence vanished. There has been some discussion about the original document that has been alleged to have been fabricated in the Tonya Craft trial by Deal. If the federal lawsuit does go to trial, the judge may want to have the original document tested as Dr. Lorandos wanted. Who has possession of that document? Heaven forbid if it is located somewhere within the Catoosa County Sheriff's Department because it could disappear just as mysteriously as it appeared during the trial.

William L. Anderson said...

To 9:58,

What you have said is just stunning, yet I doubt that one reader is surprised. THAT is the situation with the LMJC these days, and while people inside the LMJC may be defensive and angry about what we are saying, nonetheless it is the truth.

People who cannot even differentiate between good and bad evidence, people who have to lie and fabricate material in order to fill holes in their "evidence," and people who have to rely on quack "expert witnesses" like Suzi "Perjury" Thorne, Stacy Long, and Holly "Thumbs Up" Kittle and who believe that Laurie Evans is a competent therapist really have no right at all to have the authority that they have.

Tim Deal, Len Gregor, and Chris Arnt should not be permitted inside a courthouse except either to clean toilets or to be led away to prison. They certainly have no business being the ones trying to gain wrongful convictions of innocent people, and that is what they are doing.

They can scream "O.J. Verdict" all they want regarding Tonya Craft, but the jury made the right decision, and if Deal, Arnt and Gregor really cannot see that simple fact, then they are not fit for the work they do, morally or otherwise.

Despite what he might think, this is not a "Bash Tim Deal" blog. Deal has been a central figure in a lot of these cases, and he has to answer for the wrong that he has done to other families. The man has no right whatsoever to destroy the lives of people the way he has done, and if he is not man enough to own up to what he has done, then all I can say is that he is not much of a man.

The same goes for Arnt and Gregor, and especially Gregor, who thinks that he is a "real man" because he bashed Tonya Craft. Real men don't scream about "boobs" and thongs and twist evidence and outright lie. Only bullies and cowards to that, and Arnt, Gregor and Deal are nothing but bullies and cowards.

kbp said...

Kaye said:
“…There has been some discussion about the original document that has been alleged to have been fabricated in the Tonya Craft trial by Deal. If the federal lawsuit does go to trial, the judge may want to have the original document tested as Dr. Lorandos wanted. Who has possession of that document? Heaven forbid if it is located somewhere within the Catoosa County Sheriff's Department because it could disappear just as mysteriously as it appeared during the trial.”

Even if the document disappears, the hard drive(s) of the computer(s) used (or should have been used!) is still available as evidence.

They can’t make the drive show something was there in July, 2008, if it was not there. Trying to cover all trails of digital records in efforts to fabricate records will create more crimes, not hide the evidence.

If they somehow can eliminate the digital records, at best they save themselves from evidence of a crime, but not the circumstantial evidence a jury will be made aware of in a civil case.

About the best option available for the ‘convict Tonya crew’, regarding WHEN this document was produced, is to decide who takes the sword.

Anonymous said...

9:58, Wow, I don't even know what to say. I knew crazy things happened in this county, but that is just insane. I totally believe Tim Deal is a big, fat liar and that yes he will get what is coming to him. I am so sorry for what you endured, but good for you that you turned it around and go after these jerks. You are so right about those who are supposedly "good", because by remaining silent, they are just as bad as the crooks that hide behind badges!!!

William L. Anderson said...

Sorry to have to delete the 2:47 comment. I did it because there was a reference to someone being a "dope dealer," and I don't know if this individual still is on the job.

I do have to be careful regarding comments, although I will add that the person in the post was (or maybe still is) a "public official," and so the barrier for public official for libel is quite a bit higher than for private citizens.

However, I do appreciate having you post on here, especially given what you wrote earlier about being assaulted.

justiceseeker51 said...

Hoo-ray for you 9:58!
I'M so sorry for what you had to go through, but you turned it around and you are one Brave girl. I applaud you on that.

There needs to be more like you and Tonya in this world, instead of the Lauries' and Stacys' of the CAC.

Amazing
DW

Anonymous said...

I was in court the other day for a client. Unbelievably, the testifying officer TOLD THE TRUTH. It was a bad stop and the cop basically testified that he pulled over my clients "to find out what happened." In other words he didn't have the remotest reasonable suspicion to justify puling my clients over. After court I spoke with the officer and told him that I appreciated his candor and I understood he was doing his job. You know what he said? "I learned something today. I'll just have to testify differently so my cases wont get tossed." I wish I had tape rolling.

So if they aren't trained to lie, they learn to lie.

Anonymous said...

Mr Anderson I'm sorry for getting a bit angry and naming names. However the truth, absent malice, is defense against any libel charge isn't it? Thanks for the opportunity to vent and again I'm sorry for over-reaching.I've posted here a little during the trial, but must, as I'm sure you understand, remain anonymous.

kbp said...

Anon 8:09,

If you would sign some user name we might have better luck knowing which of the "Anons" you are.

Intent is NOT necessary in this civil suit, though I believe it was present and that the "truth" would show such.

Anonymous said...

WOW!!! This anon poster who has so valiantly (lol) come to little Timmy's defense is quite comical. I would first suggest some spelling lessons for this oh so educated guest. Second, if you are going to quote & comment on quotes, you need to contain the whole quote & comment on its entirety.

I'm going backwards in the blogs, so forgive me. I have figured out this is the same person who claims to know everything about search & seizure, and about child molesters. I'm also entertained with the statement of knowing thousands of LEOs. Really???? My friends in large cities who are LEOs & attorneys (some judges also) do not know "thousands" of LEOs. So who are you? Jesus? Excuse my complete smart ass attitude towards this person, but the more I read what he/ she writes, the more I believe in Santa Claus. This person needs some serious help. Holy crap! I thought it scary enough to live in the LMJC, but to know there is someone like this, scares the poop out of me. Sorry you, whoever you are, but you have zero credibility. As I have commented in later posts, you simply talk in circles & are unable to prove any point or even give the possibility of a point. You don't believe Kerwyn???? Really? Kerwyn has proven time & again her qualifications without revealing who she is. She doesn't have to for those of us who have kept up with Bill's blog since the beginning. She knows things that only someone in that field would know. Oh, I'm dying here, you claim to know thousands of LEOs, and give false information which can be proven against you, but yet you call Kerwyn a liar because she goes by a pseudonym to protect herself & her family? WOW!!!

Ok, moving on. Another thing that I touched on during the trial, but have not brought up again (regarding the fabricated document & perjury), is....well....a couple of items that popped out and smacked me in the face.
1) detective Keith recused himself from this case in the first couple of days and turned it over to little Timmy. He was the first to testify & his words were that “he knew too many people involved”.
2) from that day forward, only little Timmy was supposed to be involved with the "investigation"
3) Scumbag Suzi claims she doesn't know who the detective was in the room when the "hand rape" was disclosed.
4) if only Deal was supposed to be involved, why would it be anyone else? Proven point, old Suzi doesn't lie that quickly.
5) to save Deal’s behind, Keith comes to the rescue with the (oh so) fabricated document. Why not? Who is to prove otherwise that he was not there? Oh yeah, that little thing called, “he had recused himself from the investigation”. This is one of the many reasons Dr. Lorandos asked to question the validity. It wasn’t just the “lo & behold, here it is”, it is also the fact that Keith was not there, nor was he supposed to be there.

So “troll” (which isn’t middle school name calling, it is a term used in cyberspace for people who drop in & make unfounded claims & remarks), where are your facts? Please provide any validity to anything you say. You can’t. You are a mouthpiece for the scum of this area. I keep looking at your “responses” to people’s questions or quotes about you & you, not once, have answered or made any reasonable comment. Your friends under the bridge sure do miss you. You better scurry on back and get more complete nonsense to share with us. Seriously, please do. I have found so much laughter from you the last couple of days. :-)

UGA Mom