So, if I understand this correctly, if an official state document is damaging to the prosecution, then in Brian House's courtroom it is not allowed to be entered under hearsay rules. However, if a prosecution witness wants to claim that she remembered all this new stuff that is inflammatory and supposedly adds to the prosecution's case, then hearsay is out the window.
Oh, I am sure that the appellate courts are going to be very interested in this dichotomy regarding the rules of evidence in a Georgia court.
[End Update]
[Update II, Wednesday 5:00 PM]: Anyone who was following the testimony today of Laurie Evans found two things: (1) Her deus ex machina comments to prosecutor Chris Arnt regarding the color "yellow," as well as her "I don't remember" (the theme of the prosecution witnesses) and other things certainly smelled of perjury,(2) Her method, or non-method of taking no notes and not dating anything is unbelievably slipshod, and (3) She deliberately disobeyed a court order from Judge Marie Williams to stay away from the Henke children and have no contact with them.
Remember, she claimed to report something entirely new that never had come into the testimony before. And she did it with "hearsay." Unbelievable.
She is a licensed social worker for the State of Tennessee, and anyone who might be interested in reporting her to the state board can find that information below:
Contact the Board of Social Workers
To contact this board, call (615) 532-3202 local or 1-800-778-4123 nationwide or write:
227 French Landing, Suite 300
Nashville, TN 37243
If Evans is not willing to tell the truth under oath, and if she openly and arrogantly disobeys a judge and is part of a scheme to try to convict an innocent person and send her to prison for the rest of her life, she does not need to be in this kind of a position. There are few things more devastating to the court system than social workers who lie under oath in cases such as this.
[End Update]
[Update I, Wednesday 1:30 PM]: Dennis Norwood of the Chattanoogan has an excellent article covering this morning's testimony.
[End Update]
If there is one word (besides "travesty") that can characterize the sham trial of Tonya Craft, it is this: misconduct. We have witnessed massive misconduct on behalf of Judge Brian House, and prosecutors Chris Arnt and Len Gregor. That is not my opinion; that is what attorneys and others who have spent much of their professional lives being involved with the law-enforcement and judicial systems.
Furthermore, none of the three men are making any efforts to hide their misconduct, as much of it has been recorded and will be part of a permanent record. When people in this position engage in this kind of conduct, they usually try to find ways to hide it, just as Mike Nifong did in North Carolina during the Duke Lacrosse Case.
This is not the Soviet Union, in which the infamous Show Trials of the 1930s were brazenly crooked and broke all the rules of jurisprudence, but no one cared, as Stalin was the law there and he could do what he wanted. No, this is the United States, which has a tradition of law carried down from England and has been based upon what William Blackstone called the "Rights of Englishmen."
So, why would a judge and two prosecutors engage in the worst kind of misconduct, do it openly, and continue to go down the same path even as others point out what is happening? Why would three men endanger their own law careers?
I must admit some things do not make sense. First, no prosecutor in the State of Georgia would be willing to bring child molestation charges against anyone if witnesses of the stature of Dr. Fajman, Dr. Hazzard, Dr. Aldridge and Dr. Benet were emphatic in saying they believed no abuse happened.
Second, no prosecutor is going to claim that a high-school graduate like Suzi Thorne is a more credible forensic witness than Dr.s Aldridge and Benet, who literally wrote the book on such investigations. Stacey Long simply has no credibility next to these people, and neither would Holly Nave Kittle or even Sharon Anderson. And then there is Laurie Evans, who was "ground zero" with the therapists and who was the subject of a court order by Hamilton County Judge Marie Williams, who declared Evans to be "incompetent" and ordered her to have NO CONTACT with the children of Tonya Craft. In other words, in the battle of witnesses, the defense wins hands down.
Yet, House, Arnt and Gregor continue to insist that the defense witnesses are lying -- yes, lying -- and their witnesses are telling the truth. I can tell you that if there is a conviction, the appellate courts will not only look at the literally hundreds of errors committed and permitted by House, but they will also look at the credibility of the evidence itself. Courts usually don't look at the evidence, but rather procedures, but because of the stature of the defense witnesses, the courts will take what they say seriously.
Furthermore, even after Judge Williams' order, the prosecution still uses Evans, which tells me a number of things and also helps to answer the questions I ask at the beginning of this post. So, why the misconduct? Here are some short answers and I will go into detail later:
- Judges and prosecutors in the LMJD are used to the place being their own fiefdoms. This is not unusual with state courts, especially in the South, where there is little interference from other districts. This permits a lot of misconduct on behalf of prosecutors and judges that goes unpunished.
- Most defendants in tried in the LMJD do not have resources for the kind of representation that Tonya Craft has had, which means that the attorneys are easily rolled. Furthermore, the defense bar is told in no uncertain terms that if judges and prosecutors are displeased with them, that will spell huge career troubles.
- There is a strong aversion that people in these courts have to "outsiders" who are "telling us how to run things." That was the situation in the Duke Lacrosse case and, if we go back almost 80 years, the Scottsboro Boys trials, which were held not far from Chattanooga.
- Prosecutors and judges are used to having their colleagues elsewhere always having their backs, which gives people a sense of invulnerability. Add the fact that they are immune from lawsuits and prosecution if they are seen as acting within the scope of their duties, and you have people who believe that they can make up the rules, and refuse to follow those rules already established.
- Len Gregor especially is used to playing by his own rules. In this case he and Arnt clearly have suborned perjury, and the appeals courts will look seriously at it, and the State Bar also will have an interest in it. However, when a prosecutor believes he is invulnerable, then he or she feels free to have a witness lie on the stand, as there usually are no consequences.
Furthermore, I am sure that neither Arnt nor Gregor believe this case will be any different. They see themselves as invulnerable and, after all, the local press for years has hailed them as heroes, no matter how bad their misconduct might have been. People like to see "take charge" people and even if they run roughshod over the rights of others, many, if not most, Americans today believe that if someone is charged with a crime, that person should have no rights. So, the real underlying question is this: Why is the Tonya Craft case different? Furthermore, why do I believe that there will be consequences for Arnt, House, and Gregor after this trial ends?
First, and most important, this is the first time that any of them have been involved in a case that has been this heavily scrutinized from the outside. They cannot control the events outside the courtroom as they have been able before. Now, they tried. House's gag order was a powerful weapon against the defense, but outside writers, bloggers, and reporters are not bound by that order and House can do nothing about what they write. (And none of us have any contact with the defense. I will say that the defense has been quite honorable in submitting to House's dishonorable action.)
House, Arnt and Gregor seem to believe that just because they have near-complete control of the events within the courthouse, and that the courthouse comprises the entire universe in their view, nothing that happens outside matters. I believe that is wrong. What develops outside makes a difference, perhaps not in this case but in future cases and also in the scrutiny these men will receive from people who matter.
Second, they have angered some very influential people. People like Dr. Aldridge and Dr. Bernet are not ordinary "expert" witnesses. Their testimony in the courts is like that of Ahithophel of the Old Testament, and for them to be intimated by the prosecution as incompetent or even liars is going to have consequences. These are people who have the ear of other prosecutors, attorneys, and judges and I can tell readers that Dr. Nancy Aldridge is angry about what has happened, and she is not going to be silent after the trial ends.
By openly favoring inferior "experts" Thorne, the prosecution also is sending a message downstate that it will play only by its own rules and that the real experts are liars and charlatans. This is not going to sit well with a lot of people who are influential.
Third, by teaming with House to keep LEGAL exculpatory information from the jury, these men have stepped over the line regarding what the codes of conduct by the Georgia State Bar clearly state. Their actions make it look as though they were protecting perjured testimony from others and are trying to keep the truth out of the courtroom. This is a serious offense, and if there is a conviction and the appeals courts find that prosecutors deliberately kept exculpatory evidence from the trial, and with the overt aid of a judge, then there is no way that these people can walk away from this unscathed.
My sense is that Arnt and Gregor have done this before, but this is the first time they have done it on camera. Because they have operated this way in the past, and because they have not been called out for it, they have come to believe, in my opinion, that they are entitled to act in this manner. As Gregor himself declared on a blog, he loves to be a prosecutor because he gets to be "The Man."
Fourth, like most prosecutors and judges, they believe a "guilty" verdict, no matter how it was engineered, vindicates their actions. They always can claim: "A jury found Tonya Craft guilty in a court of law." However, if that is the case, then the real issue that the courts would want to see would be this: How did the verdict come about? Because of the open-ended abuse that has occurred in this case, I am sure that the justices downstate are going to take a very hard look at what happened, should Tonya Craft be convicted.
Fifth, Arnt, House, and Gregor believed they had a slam dunk case and that Ms. Craft would be quickly convicted and they were not prepared for a fight like this. People who believe that they run the show are not going to take kindly to anyone who challenges them, especially given the bullying nature that characterizes both Arnt and Gregor. Thus, they have teamed up with House to totally change all of the rules of evidence, even if that means the possibility of the case being overturned.
Sixth, Arnt, Gregor, and House never have had any of their actions thoroughly scrutinized. The local media certainly has not taken a hard look at their cases, and certainly no one has even thought to ask whether or not the "expert witnesses" from the Children's Advocacy Center should have any credibility.
In other words, it has been business as usual, and there was no reason that anyone believed this trial would be any different. Furthermore, influential people in Catoosa County have been part of this effort, both as prosecution witnesses and as backers of this whole endeavor. There was no reason to think that it would run into any snags.
Seventh, the fact that judicial officials outside the particular court have not intervened and do not generally intervene during a trial or while the judicial process of a case is in progress has given House, Arnt, and Gregor the window they need to do whatever they want. The only time I ever have seen intervention into an abusive system has been in the Duke case, when the North Carolina State Bar filed formal charges against Mike Nifong while before the proceedings even had advanced to a trial. That was a huge exception.
The players in the system want to protect the system, and over the years, the prosecutors have taken over much of the apparatus. Thus, the other people become involved only after everything is finished. (There is an economic research paper waiting for me that deals with this aspect of the courts, which I may try to write later in the year.)
I will admit this whole trial has been unusual, at least by Catoosa County standards. I doubt that someone from the Today Show ever has stepped foot in that courthouse before, and no one anticipated that it would generate interest outside the Chattanooga area.
However, that interest also is a game changer, and it has placed the actions of House, Gregor, and Arnt under scrutiny they never have faced before. Like Mike Nifong, they believe that the "good old boys" of the system will blunt or eliminate any repercussions from their gross and obvious misconduct.
No trial ever should be run like what we have seen, even if the defendant actually were guilty, and guilty as sin. We have a long and hallowed tradition of the rights of the accused and the right to a fair trial, and we have seen these violated in such an execrable way that either there is redress and accountability, or we might as well have no trials at all and move straight to the punishment phase for anyone who is accused.
206 comments:
1 – 200 of 206 Newer› Newest»Mr. Anderson, these folks, the "Officers of the Court", the attorneys, judges, and prosecutors of the LMJC, are so used to wallowing in their own shit it smells normal and sweet to them. Any good qualified attorney doesn't stay long, it smells so bad here. Buzz Franklin is supposed to be in charge of the DA's office, wonder when he is coming out his turtle shell? He sure is laying low. As District Attorney, he is just as responsible for what is happening here as Nifong was in the Duke Case. I believe it's called accountability.
While your honesty level is a reflection of your character, it is also a way to show your faith. In the Bible, God made honesty one of his commandments. Since God cannot lie, He sets the example for all of His people. It is God's desire that we follow that example in all that we do.
Exodus 20:16 - "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." (NIV)
Proverbs 16:11 - "The Lord demands accurate scales and balances; he sets the standards for fairness." (NLT)
Psalm 119:160 - "The very essence of your words is truth; all your just regulations will stand forever." (NLT)
12:49- Amen!
What a tangled web we weave... The "testimony" of Laurie Evans this morning is a prime example. The prosecutor's case exists in whole or in part on her judgement. Now we come to find that judgement was faulty, impaired or even bought? Now they are doing their best to hide this from the jury, but who really thinks this jury is going home and not reading, talking or otherwise studying the facts of this case. I've heard the prosecution may have a ringer on the jury so perhaps the best we can hope for is a hung jury, but IMO that would be the best thing to ensure that the actions of these 3 men get scrutinized to the Nth degree and they are ultimately disbarred. A mistrial also does not guarantee a second trial as the provision for Double Jeopardy may apply in cases of prosecutorial miscocnduct.
Misconduct for sure! But why are they getting away with it?
I need to make an addition to my article to better explain your question, Kellie. In the court system, outside people rarely intervene while a trial is going because they want to protect the system.
I say hollywood has come to NorthGeorgia now playing at catoosa county courthouse:ONE BAD CALL Starring sandra sham facebook the man and outhouse!!!
Revelation12: 7-9
Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Hummm!
I have made the addition to deal with what Kellie has asked.
Unfortunately Catoosa County is the scene where this buffoonery has taken place, but Mr. Anderson please realize that the "influential" citizens involved in this witch hunt are largely from Walker County and more specifically the town of Chickamauga. By the nature of a unfortunate county line and a subdivision placed in the middle of nowhere, Ringgold has been drawn into this. Perhaps this is a good thing and I will attempt to explain. Frankly in the twenty plus years I've made this my home and where I've chosen to raise my family, I would much rather be tried by a jury drawn from my peers in this county than most of the surrounding counties. In the circle of friends, neighbors and business associates with whom I've discussed this case, I have found one and only one person that believes the allegations against Mrs. Craft. My friend qualifies that statement by saying she has talked with and is friends with some of the parents of the alleged victims and they are convinced that some abuse actually occurred. I am sure though that if she were on the jury, she too would have to vote for acquittal based upon the testimony as it has been presented. Talking to my friend that has assumed Mrs. Craft's guilt reinforces my belief that this started with an unfortunate incident and a massive overreaction by the parents and an investigator that thought he had the really big one. Compound this with poorly trained and overzealous child advocates and opportunistic ex-spouses and we have experienced a "perfect storm" Thankfully due to an unusually brave and resourceful defendant and a top notch defense team, Justice appears to have a chance to triumph in this case. I can only hope that my confidence in my fellow citizens and jurors is not misplaced.
please answer...I think someone asked last week but I never found the answer. The Wilson's daughter is not an accuser, so why are they soooooo involved in this? She was Tonya's BF,right? Where does their dtr play a role in all this? Was it her that Tonya felt needed to held back? I thought it was the Lamb's???... I am telling everyone I know about this trial and I want to know that I have my facts right!!
David,
Excellent points. Indeed, excellent. Thanks for your comments.
AS A CITIZEN OF CHICKAMAUGA I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT THE MCDONALD FAMILY WAS UNKNOWN AN THEY ARE NOW RIDING THE COAT TAILS OF THE LAMBS AN WILSONS ITS VERY SAD AND UNFORTUNATE THAT PEOPLE WILL GO TO ANY LENGTH TO MAKE FRIENDS.
Thank you. It makes sense that judicial officials outside the court in question would generally not interfere, however it seems that it leaves the court at risk to be overly influenced and possibly mislead by the state without a "QA" system in place, especially given the misconduct witnessed in this trial. Will House & the ada's be held accountable for thier actions? and if so to who or what?
Bill,
Is it true that the jury won't be able to hear that Laurie Evans accused her own ex-husband of molesting their child, and that the father was removed from the child's life?
And Evans testifies today that she received her information about Tonya's children from Det. Tim Deal?
This is truly sickening. God Bless Tonya and the INNOCENT children. And God have mercy on the souls of those who perpetrated this farce.
I certainly hope they will. My sense is that people will be lining up to make substantive complaints to the Ga Bar about Arnt and Gregor. As I have posted, I believe they have broken Rules 3.3, 3.4, and 3.5, all of which carry maximum penalties of disbarment.
House is subject to a different body, and I don't know anything about that. Others will have to deal with that situation.
David, I can only hope your assessment of your fellow county folks is accurate. For they are who will decide to free this woman or end her life.
I pray you are correct.
That is correct, Phyllis. House and the prosecutors are trying to keep as much exculpatory evidence out as possible, and I don't think the people at the state bar will look kindly upon them for it.
To answer your question anonymous..it was the wilson girl who tonya held back and the wilsons made threats that they would get her for that as was stated in testimony by Mr. Walker last week.
Mr. Anderson you have stated the potential consequences for the three stooges however i would like to know about the potential consequences of the idiots at cac. Will they go on business as usual?
Is it just me, or does it strike anyone else as odd that Evans didn't appear as a state's witness? That alone should be cause for alarm bells to be ringing. You would have to ask yourself, "Why have they paraded all of these (state) witnesses that have interviewed these children, yet the very one that interviewed Tonya's own daughter the most was purposely left off the state's witness list!!! It is because the prosecution team already know she is not credible, and I guess they were just hoping that she would not be a factor, rather than going ahead, bringing her on board, and dealing with the issues up front so that any further attempt from the defense to discredit her would be looking like bully tactics on the def.'s part. I am not an attorney, (maybe one day) but this is court tactics 101... These guys really are amatures. God Bless You Tonya for fighting back!!! I hope you get a front row seat for the downfalls that are soon to be coming to all of these lying, thieving, conspiring, conniving, busybodys and the three bullies that are running this dog and pony show!
To the 2:24
I believe they will be vulnerable to lawsuits. Furthermore, every case in which they had a part in which there was a conviction will be scrutinized, and the results will not be pretty.
They have a huge potential problem in the LMJD here and I think that people need to start getting aggressive and demanding some answers.
Evans admits that she is still treating the child actress. Her parents really are idiots to allow this nutjob around their child. That kid doesn't stand a chance. She is going to be messed up beyond repair.
Please help us show our support for TONYA!! I am trying to get together enough people to do a fundraising picnic on May 15th at 2pm at the park in rinngold by the courthouse. If youd like to help leave a message @celticdragon23@hotmail.com about what food item or supplies you can bring. We still need tablecloths, plastic silverwear, decorations and food lots and lots of food. Store owners if you would like to donate something please do. We want to fill that park with people who support Tonya!! Channel 3's Melydia Clewell is interested in covering the picnic.
thanks 2:09.
She wasn't a state witness, because she is even more pathetic then the ones they did have. My goodness, no wonder defense counsel had a splitting headache, gave me one, just reading her testimony.
Uh-Oh, the AP just arrived!
just a bit of info thought people would like to know accuser 1 (child actress) stated in front of several little girls at school that she can have what she wants and do what she wants as long as she doesnt tell on her mom for what she does........hmm
Anon 3.33 email me with how you know this please and when it occurred
RT @Derrall: Talked to @TodayShow producer. Their plan is to be live the morning after #TonyaCraft takes the stand, IF she does.
(Twitter - Callie Starnes)
My question, what happens after Tonya Craft takes the stand? I know there is closing arguments. How long do those usually take?
I'm sure there will be more than NBC here for the verdict.
Boy I would love to see Bobby Lee Cook in court tomorrow or remainder of this trial. His appearance I think would really intimidate some people. Maybe Arnt would duck and run for cover. LOL
Someone of his stature would send a powerful message I think to many people.
Open invite for him to come watch this INJUSTICE.
some little girls were talking about it at ballfields a couple weeks ago!
Anon, I would need to know how you know this, ie did you witness this yourself (either conversation)
kerwyn my daughter an her friends did but i could never come forward because the consequences would be swift in chickamauga.
Anon 3:53 there is no law that you must live in Chickamauga. Perhaps the truth should be worth more than a moving van?
Anon, can you email me (click on my name) I do not want or need your name. I understand completely. but could I get the whole story surrounding this pretty please and in private.
Anon @ 3:53
So you are just going to sit back holding your breath and hope YOUR turn to be in Tonya's shoes doesn't come anytime soon?
That attitude is why this place is what it is and will stay what it is until enough people summon the courage to say NO MORE! There are ways to help this fight without doing damage to yourself, please consider that if you know something.
I just have one question...I have personally notified Gov. Sonny Perdue AND the GA Bar of the horrible misconduct displayed by Team HAG (House, Arnt, Gregor...feel free to use it), as well as, Bill O'Reilly of The O'Reilly Factor. So, having lived in the shadow of this shameful society and it's good-old boy politics the majority of my life, I understand how they get away with their antics when it's kept hush-hush. But, due to the national and even international attention that has now been drawn to this case, how can a Governor, DA AND a state Bar Assoc. allow this mockery and misuse of the Justice System to continue to eat away at tax payer dollars in "such bad economic times" and cause such a blight on the entire region?
You are free to call me ignorant or naive but, I was under the impression that these circus freaks had to answer to SOMEONE in a higher position and that that someone could put the nix on the whole thing. Just saying.
Heather,
The do, but only when and if national attention is brought to bear.
Otherwise, unless you folks locally rise up and vote them out, your stuck with them.
Stinks
Heather-
Good for you! Sonny is a lame duck though, he could care less. Put some pressure on your state rep and senator, they aren't lame ducks and if nothing else should be pressured to lead the charge on getting legislation passed to reign in these witch hunts (require qualified interviewers, etc, etc) and put in place a mechanism to hold those accountable falsely use the system to their benefit.
Thank you dmk and Kerwyn. I shall now begin my letters to the truly appropriate parties!
One of your points didn't make sense to me. Would you mind clarifying? You stated:
"First, no prosecutor in the State of Georgia would be willing to bring child molestation charges against anyone if witnesses of the stature of Dr. Fajman, Dr. Hazzard, Dr. Aldridge and Dr. Benet were emphatic in saying they believed no abuse happened."
If this is so, why have these experts testified in other trials for the defense? If their opinion is so important, wouldn't other prosecutors have dropped the charges before they ever had a chance to testify?
Just wondering - ?
Oh, the lies are coming out in droves now. Evans said accuser 1, child actress, hates color yellow b/c it's Craft's favorite color. Arnt points out Dr. Lorandos wore yellow tie day he cross-examined accuser 1. Evans says that was cruel. Now, go to accuser 1's FB page (yeah, she has one at nine even though FB specifically says child must be 13 with parental permission). Outfit she's wearing has red, white, blue, and yellow in it. And she looks more like 'spit on me and I'll kick your backside' then scared. Oh, and did anyone notice how Evans' memory and attitude improved after Arnt took over. She's a piece of work!
You know any other judge than Louse (not a typo) would have reprimanded Evans for her vague responses to defense questions. A good judge will demand only a "yes or no" answer to a "yes or no" question.
Wondering if anyone knows when "hostile witness" Mrs. Frances Newton is scheduled to testify???????Or is she still on the list?????????
I wondered where the yellow tie thing was going when I saw the tweet, figured it had to be something entirely stupid and irrelevant. Great legal mind at work there, I'm sure that scored big with the jury (not).
anon 4:23,
All of the above Dr's, with exception of Dr. Bernet, mostly testify for the prosecution. When they do get involved with the defense, which is minimal, they do so for trials after the charges have been filed. I would dare to say that when they do testify, the defendant is found not-guilty. Of course there are other dirty prosecutors out there, always have been. Also, if you research these Dr's, it would be a very rare occasion if 2, much less all 4, would be on the same case. This is Dr. Anderson's point. If 1 testifies, it should scare the crap out of a prosecutor, if 2, they should immediately drop the charges. The defense actually brought in 3 who mostly testify for the state & 1 who mostly testifies for the defense. It's complicated, but Dr. Anderson makes complete sense. Notice he says the state of GA, these people travel the country to testify in only cases they believe in, one way or another. They are true experts.
Does that help?
That was the worst piece of drivel testimony I have ever heard. Obviously fabricated *to me*. This is a therapist who has NO NOTES only summaries she "typed" up at some unproven date.
She claims that Accuser 1 came to her for help to stop masterbating because Tonya Craft taught her to? Dear God.
Who are these idiots.
Oh and she ignores a direct court order to have no contact with the craft children *she is STILL see the girl poor thing* and ignores a subpoena because "it was in Tennessee".
She was caught in a lie, 4 times by my count.
I hope she gets sued out of existence. I am going to write a complaint to the state about her behavior and see what the state thinks about a licensed social worker who just "ignores" court orders and subpoenas.
Mr. Anderson,
I applaud you for the work you are doing in exposing the "justice" system. Sadly, many judicial districts are plagued with the same problem as the LMJD. I just want you to know that I am an attorney in the local "area" and I will be more than willing to lend my time to the cause. I will send a private email to you later. IMO, the Tonya Craft case highlights the failing of the system that ironically has not received much attention, the grand jury system. Tonya would not be going through this if the grand jury was today, what it was always intended to be, a barrier between the prosecution and the citizens. Instead, the grand jury system, state and federal, is a sham. The criminal activity of Facebook and Aren't in this case started when they presented all their false and twisted evidence to dupe the grand jurors into a "true bill" indictment. I happen to be a law and order type. I don't practice criminal law in the courtroom but if I did it would be for the prosecution. I am generally not sympathetic to the defense as law enforcement, the DA's and the AUSA's do a great job, for the most part. I have seen enough of it and been involved sufficiently (research and consulting) to know that if corruption occurs, it starts at the grand jury. It is conducted in secret, is one sided (prosecution only), and most significantly, is unaccountable. I have heard prosecutors say that if the defendant goes free (by acquittal or appeal) they will just get them re-indicted on new charges. Its just that easy. And with an indictment, the prosecution wields an unbelievable threat to the defendant's liberty. As a practical matter, a grand jury indictment ruins a person's life. It should not be a process that is undertaken lightly nor should it be that easy. While House, Arent and Facebook are front and center as the new Nifongs, and they all deserved to be disbarred, there are a thousand other Nifongs out there that use the grand jury process just to get an indictment. I encourage you to use your voice, not just to obtain justice for Tonya and get the three amigos disbarred, but also to advocate for a change in the grand jury process.
Anon who knows about this kid and what she said, please contact me.
Help, haven't ever posted but have kept up with all comments - would someone please tell me who to contact about this - If someone was allowed in to the courtroom today w/a cell phone - what is to stop them from bringing in a weapon???
well dmk... problem there is our state senator is Jeff Mullis... hmmm, where have I heard that name? Oh yeah, he was one the contributor list for Brian House!!!! Welcome to our lovely Hick Counties... Where everybody is in bed with everybody else!!!!
Don't forget to call health insurance companies on Ms. Evans. Hit her in the pocketbook for her dishonest actions.
Looloo Laurie said that Dr. Lorandos wearing a yellow tie the day accuser 1 was testifying, "was cruel".
1) I guarantee if he would have upset the girl, he would have changed it immediately. Honestly, I find it hilarious because the dorks didn't even realize what he was doing.
2) Not sure if anyone else noticed, but in accuser 2's interviews, she said that Tonya hated the color yellow. I guess she forgot what she was suppose to lie about. It's hard to keep up with lies, that's why even decent parents encourage their children to be honest.
3) What is more cruel? A brilliant Dr. & attorney proving a point or a group of so called professionals making kids lie about sexual abuse???
Of the 3 children, I only feel sorry for Tonya's daughter & the McDonalds' daughter. Mostly Tonya's because she was ripped away from a great mother & brainwashed. The McDonalds' will reap what they sow, but the child will be mentally ill for a long time, if not forever. As far as the Lambs' daughter, I just have a really hard time feeling any sympathy. The only sympathy I do have is she was not asked to be born to weirdos. I believe her mother encourages her to be a narcissist & this child will never care about her part in this railroad. She has already shown the "Paris Hilton Complex" & the sad thing is, she can separate herself from that. She is in public school among children of all socio-economic backgrounds & is old enough to know right from wrong & how to treat people.
Yeah, I know he was on the list. Not sure that is a problem though, Mullis has his eye on bigger and better things and doesn't want his name tied to this sinking ship.
My thinking on all of this is if just one main player will flip in an attempt to try to save his own skin, then the whole sorry lot will come down since that's the danger in all being so tightly linked. It offers protection, but ultimately is dangerous too.
Mullis doesn't really appear to be a player this time other than he is part of the club. It's important to get him on notice now though that people are expecting something more than the business as usual from him and his cronies, and to get him pinned down on what he thinks. I don't expect him to, nor would it be proper, for a member of the Legislative to get actively involved right now during the trial, but it's not too early to start laying the groundwork.
Do we really think that the State of Georgia is ready to open Pandora's box in Catoosa County? The cost of investigations, appeals, overturned convictions, etc will be in the millions before it is over. So, will the State of Georgia really persue this? Is this something more for the Feds to investigate? If so, what authority would be involved?
You would write the United States Attorney General I believe. I think Bill knows for sure.
I am enraged with today's activities in the court room. I went to the court today to support Tonya - don't know her, never met her. But a friend of mine and I went for support. My friend is hard of hearing so I was mouthing who they were talking about (she reads lips) - nothing more and the Baliff - (Big woman, red hair) came up to me and pointed and said "BE QUITE" then to the woman directly behind me told her to "SIT UP" - she then proceeded to stand at the end of our pew to glare at me for about 10 minutes to see if I spoke or mouthed again. She was looking for a reason to throw me out. I felt like I was in a communist country and have never felt so much intimidation in my life in the USA. I left shortly there after and will not go back because I know that I will land in jail if they ask me to leave and with this court system I would certainly be made as an example. I feel so sorry for this woman for having to put up with these folks on a daily basis. I wish I could support Tonya and will through prayers and discussions outside of the court room but these folks have the devils work in their hands, it is a shame and I am enraged at the treatment I received today - especially since my TAX money pays their salary.
I'm wondering whether the judge in Tennessee can't issue a bench warrant for the arrest of the so-called therapist. She willfully defied her court order, with the excuse that a subpoena can't be enforced across state lines. Well, a warrant can be.
Can anyone please provide me with an email address for DA Buzz Franklin? The "matters" I would like to write to him are just a bit too urgent for snail mail. Thanks in advance.
To Anon 6:04
Do you know sign language? if so, you should have started signing to your friend, and once in a while slipped in a good one finger salute to the woman. If she got upset you could have said, "You said to stop talking." And, if she got mad about the finger, then you could have said, "Sorry, I have Tourettes."
Buzz Franklin email from the GA State Bar page.
hfranklin@pacga.org
Not an email listed on the Lookout Mtn Judicial Circuit page that I saw.
Anon. 6:04
You aren't alone -- if you aren't recognized as a friend of the prosecution, then expect to be treated like you're an alien. My husband and I (from Chattanooga) drove down one afternoon last week and had the same experience.
It makes you appreciate even more the way Tonya has comported herself throughout this ordeal when we experience only a fraction of what she must deal with on a daily basis.
And today's expert therapist, Laurie? -- I wouldn't let my cat go see her. I think way too much of my cat. To think that she has been in the postion of influence in these young children's lives is sickening.
I agree -- it's time for Buzz to get his head out of the sand and get his be-hind over to the courthouse. Just because you aren't physically there, Buzz, doesn't mean you aren't an accomplice to this travesty of justice. It's on your head too.
No email listed for Buzz Franklin on LMJC page, but at the bottom I found a very interesting fact when looking for contact info. They have a counter like most websites, but this one says: Over 560,189 disgruntled customers. Yet for some reason banned in China. Say what? Whoever built this website has a lot of explaining to do. Although they do have links to the state's stuff. You just have to sort through all the other things first.
Heather O - Don't put much faith in Jay Neal. Here's his representative website, with mailing addresses in LaFayette and Atlanta. http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/2009_10/house/bios/nealJay/nealJay.htm But I remember him when he ran against Mike Snow. Not a person I wanted representing me but I was in the minority. But that was a very close minority and required three times at the polls to pull off the first time Neal gained the job.
Also, Jeff Mullis will probably disassociate himself from the terrible trio now that the press and public are turning against them. Mike Snow did the same with the Marsh family during the Tri-State Crematory scandal back in 2002. It's called rats abandoning a sinking ship. Politicians are much the same. Any stink that might attach to them is to be avoided at all costs.
As for disobeying a court order from TN, doesn't Joal Henke live in Ooltewah (sp?)? That's in TN. And the custody was decided in TN. So in GA or not, Laurie Evans has to obey the court order. Maybe someone should email the judge and have her look over the tweets from today's testimony. Just might find them extremely interesting.
Which brings me to something that has bothered me since I first heard the child actress' testimony. Her mom beat her with a belt, a criminal act in every state in this nation. But no one's filed charges against the mom and DCFS has left her child in her care despite this being against their rules. Also, the stepmom doing the bathing/shaving with a small child is beyond wrong. But again, no charges. And these women testified to these actions in court. So, there are one set of laws for the great unwashed who can't afford to be in their social circles and laws for others, where if they break the law they tell a lie and get away with it? Sure sounds wrong to me.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a State of Tennessee court document is hearsay. Does that mean my college diploma is also hearsay unless I can produce my college's president to vouch to it's veracity?
KC, good eye on the website, I had visited it several times and not noticed that - very unprofessional and tells you a lot about that organization, doesn't it? Think I let the Georgia State Bar and the Prosecuting Attorneys of Georgia Council know about that and see if they think that represents their profession well. If anyone else wants to, feel free to join in.
have many years as a Forensic Nurse Examiner (I promise I didn't take my degree online). The following is my opinion on this case so far (as I know the facts to be)
Here are some of the glaring issues I see with Evan's testimony today.
Documentation. For us in the medical field (that includes shrinks n stuff) we have a cardinal rule we all live by. IF IT IS NOT DOCUMENTED IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. This is serious stuff.
I have never ever, ever to the 10th power, not taken written notes during an interview. In fact now, I both audio tape it AND take notes. I do write a "summary" after my interview and I do use my written notes to jog my memory (I have an excellent memory). But when I testify, I always testify to my written notes which, of course, always match my written summary. I CANNOT ever, ever, ever say " she told me" unless I have it in my written notes, because it is heresay in most cases. Since my summary is in MY words, I can't testify to "she told me." However, in my written notes I always do the follow; "name states and what she says word for word". Of course the person (in my case I work primarily as a SANE/FNE not a counselor) then writes their own statement and I can assure you, our prosecutor and cops compare that with my written notes.
All and I mean ALL of the psychiatric folks I work with take written notes. Most audio record their sessions as well. But Ms." I don't need no stinkin notes" Evans does not. She can't remember the first 3 questions she was asked by Arnt less than 30 minutes earlier, but she can remember word for word an hour long counseling session? uh huh.. I got some land to sell too. There is study after study showing that the average person can't do that with any accuracy, specially adults who use memory different than children do.
That all being said, she produced "typed summaries" of her interviews with these children. Were they time date stamped? with a machine, not typed in? I walk to the counter, and shove my notes (which are time date and signed by hand ) into the time date machine which stamps them with the time and date (military time btw). We do that because ANY moron with a word processor can make up notes and put a computer time date on them (child's play to change the time date on a computer). Hell with a typewriter, it is even easier. Then you just say, oh ya I wrote those long ago (uh huh). You can't prove that, especially when what is contained in your notes is so far away from anything the child said before or since to anyone else.
Being able to document your own honesty is critically important to a healthcare provider of any form. We do this simply to avoid any appearance of impropriety on our parts. As we are seeing, there are (sadly) very dishonest healthcare workers and rather than be lumped with that group of creeps, we just are careful, methodical and precise in what we document, how we document it and how we prove that documentation. In fact, there are whole courses taught on just that subject, documentation, which apparently this group of "experts" didn't bother to take (it's not offered online darn it).
Cont-
I really hope the jury caught on to what D-Lo was trying to prove about Laurie Evans when asking her questions and all her answers were, "I don't recall," "I don't remember." He was trying to prove that for someone who can not remember what was said 5 minutes ago, how are they going to remember what a patient said during the therapy session if she doesn't take notes during the session!!! So she was probably over embellishing her notes, in my opinion, or they were out right LIES!
I live very near another state. I frequently testify in that other state. I cannot imagine, literally can't, ignoring a subpoena or a court order from that state. Of course no judge has ever found me to be "uncredible" and ordered me to have no contact with someone. I can't even imagine that happening. Of course, that is because I am honest. I don't care what the prosecution or the defense wants, I care what the facts say.
Ms Evans treated us today to a fabrication of epic proportions. Had I been sitting on a case review team, I would have recommended she be fired immediately just for her lack of documentation, let alone admitting she was intentionally ignoring court orders and subpoenas.
I have never seen a supposed counselor act in such an unprofessional and obvious dishonest fashion. For her to claim that the little girl told her that Tony Craft taught her how to masturbate and oh please Ms. Evans help me stop pleasing myself, is more bull poop than we have down at the local feedlot. This child NEVER mentioned to anyone other than supposedly her mother that Tonya Craft taught her to "please" herself. She, in fact, testified to how much it "hurt" (that's not pleasure), how afraid she was. Now I am suppose to believe the story, that after this child was "brutally assaulted (all her fingers used vaginally and anally)" that this child went home and said, hum, I guess I liked that so I am going to try it myself? If you believe that, I have a bridge you might be interested in.
She NEVER talked about this in ANY interview, not once in 5 interviews. Suddenly, we have this Evan's claim that this little girl begged her to help her stop pleasing herself? Oh Please.
Oh and lets add this color yellow crap in. Here is her mother's testimony. Since we know her mother already committed perjury, take it as you will. " She also testified that the girl has a problem with the color yellow, saying that was Tonya’s favorite color and she hates it.
Mr. Arnt asked the witness if she had ever seen her daughter masturbate and she answered in the affirmative and went on to describe what she observed. The witness then told the jury, “That’s what Miss Tonya taught me to do.” Why in the world would someone bring up in a sexual assault trial something as trivial as the color yellow? Odd considering her FB page shows her in bright yellow, green and red patterned clothing. Any of the Psych types among us will confirm that if someone has an negative emotion connection to a particular color, they will go to extreme ends to avoid that color.
Lets add this comment in from another of Ms Evan's patients, accuser 2 (yes she is STLL counseling these poor 3 kids) "Little girl in video says another girl hits her if she doesn't play "girl-friend-boyfriend game". Oh ya, that sounds like Tonya taught them that too right? So this child becomes violent if the other little girl won't please her? And we are to infer from that statement, that Tony must have taught her that you should hit someone and force them to do a sexual act to you? That stretches incredulity beyond the breaking point.
All in all, this testimony, in my humble opinion, as with all the rest of the states "experts" shows poor to little education in their fields, intentional dishonesty, the inability to follow the standards of practice and procedures that all of us everywhere in the United States follow, inability to do something as simple as document their findings, intentional "misinterpretation" (I am being kind ) of factual data, intentionally suborning false data from their "clients" and the drive to be "heroes" of sexually abused children. We have a name for people like this, they suffer from a mental illness called Munchausen by proxy. They feel empowered when a child "finally" breaks down (note the word breaks) and "admits" sexual abuse. It gives them good feelings, they like to be in the limelight as a hero.
cont-
They should (with the exception of the SANE who simply needs more training) be fired and charged. I can only hope for Ms. Craft, that when this nightmare ends, she sues these entities for every dime they have. Yes it would put a children's advocacy center out of business. Maybe someone with solid ethics and training could start a real one instead.
dmk to my point do we REALLY think that the GA State Bar is going to "go there"?? Does it stop with Catoosa County? Folks, the TRUTH is it is all about economics. The Catoosa County or the State of Georgia really doesn't care unless an until it hits the pocketbook. Sorry I wish it were different. Ray Charles could see this- While Georgia (justice) is on our mind- Money is on the mind of Georgia.Someone please tell me what will get the Peach state's attention???
Dr. Anderson,
If the state of GA won't take this matter up, is there a chance the feds will have a go at it. As you know the feds just love uncovering local corruption (not their own) and prosecuting it. This nest of snakes would be a gold mine for the feds. Political corruption, judicial corruption, sheriff's dept. corruption, the list goes on and on.
Anyone who thinks Buzz Franklin is going to crawl out of his turtle shell to do anything about this farce, or any of the local State of Georgia elected officials, is dreaming a big dream. This is going to take a 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 lawsuit before anything happens, and a Federal Prosecutor to join in as an interested party. It's called "Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law". The current Supreme Court Justice David Nahmias was appointed by "Good Ol Boy" Sonny Perdue to become Chief Justice upon retirement of former Chief Justice Leah Ward Sears, a black woman, so don't hold your breath waiting for help from the Supreme Court of Georgia. Nahmias was formerly with the U.S. Attorney General's Office, was a "Bushie", and didn't do anything notable in his term as AG to fight public corruption; in fact his opinions have been notably right wing since his apointment to the Supreme Court of Georgia.
However, Sally Quillian Yates, the current acting U.S.A.G., who has been nominated by President Barack Obama to become the Federal Prosecutor for the Northern District of Georgia, may be the right person for the job. Mrs. Yates became the Chief of the U.S. Attorney's Office's fraud and public corruption unit in 1994, and became a top aide to the U.S. Attorney's Office in 2002. Prior to joining the U.S. Attorney's Office, Mrs. Yates, a double graduate of the University of Georgia, was in private practice with a premier trial litigation firm in Atlanta, Spaulding and King. Notably, during her earlier tenure with the US Attorney's Office, Mrs. Yates successfully prosecuted former Atlanta Mayor Bill Campbell and former Georgia State Schools Superintendant Linda Schrenko for corruption in office. Why look for a man in this situation, when a woman is the right person for the job? Once Tonya Craft graduates from law school, don't be surprised if she ends up on a similar career path.
Lookout,
How does a fed lawsuit like this get started? Who would have to initiate it? Where? When?
Anon @ 7:09
Yes, they will if you play your cards right. It IS totally about money and power, you are correct, but don't assume there is nothing in it for them.
First, it's a dog eat dog world in Georgia politics, and when one dog has a chance to eat another dog to make them an even bigger dog with the bonus of reducing the competition, dog #2 better run for the hills.
If there is even the slightest chance that the public may toss one of them out and thus cancel their meal ticket, then they will throw their best friend and ally under the bus in a heartbeat to make sure the sweet deals and cash keep rolling in. Not because they give a rat's ass about truth, honesty, public service, the citizens of Georgia, or anything but themselves, but because it has the potential of hurting their bank account, and money is power. Spend public money to protect yourself from a risk of getting your personal meal ticket canceled, what could be better for a politician?
Very rarely the public's best interests meet up with the powers that be's best interests, and this can be made to be one of those times. If you understand someone's motivation from the beginning, if you play your cards right, you can usually get them to do something if they are made to realize what's in it for them if they do and what may happen if they don't. I'm not a purist, I don't care what their true motivations are, I just want to see results.
Going back to the prosecution’s reference to his flipping a yellow tie in a child’s face after the witness had said the child had a problem with the color yellow, he asked the witness if she had observed the child coloring with a yellow crayon before stopping himself with the comment, “Oh, wait, you didn’t watch any of the child’s interviews, did you?”
chattanoogan.com
I thought you might like that link from the chattanoogan, Kerwyn. you mentioned how a child would avoid that color.
oooh Robin Flores of Chattanooga might be a good lawyer for that kind of case. I know he hates crooked cops and lawyers, and he practices in Federal Court. He's former military, and used to be a police officer, and yet he's not afraid to sue sheriffs and police depts. He just got a lawyer disbarred in TN not long ago for ethical misconduct. Not from Catoosa or Walker County either.
I happen to know for a fact that Sherry Wilson has been texting employees of CES to come to Courthouse tomorrow during Tonya's testimony for intimidation purposes. She still doesn't get it, does she? Also, she still has some of her lackeys convinced of Tonya's guilt. Maybe if they keep kissing her ass she will buy them something really nice when this is all over. I'm convinced that is the only reason that they refuse to pull their heads out of the sand and look at the testimony of real experts.
@ Anon 7;36, It's a toughie. What's needed is someone who can smell the money, and has no backs to scratch. Somehow Mrs Yates will end up in it, I'm sure.
Check out this comment left by someone on Bad Bad Teachers. I'm wondering if this person knows any of the parties involved in the prosecution:
Charles L:
May 5, 2010 at 4:13 pm
I am a conservative Christian and a registered Republican. ONly a bunch of stupid, left-wing, peace-loving Domocrats and wacko liberals would support Miss Craft. If George Bush were still President, the witch would be roasting on the electric chair! I am fed up with this media circus and think the local news has better things to report on! God bless America!
--------------
End Quote
In my own opinion, this kind of behavior is NOT what a conservative christian would engage in, and no true Republican or Democrat, or AMERICAN would want a person going to jail without the Constitutional DUE PROCESS of the LAW being exercised.
Lame, I can only agree. That web site was dead until a week ago.
@ Lame, I can only agree. That website was dead until just in the last week.
Hear hear Lame. Perhaps Mr. French has started coming to the boards. I find it interesting that folks who make comments like this, refuse to post under their real names. hum
Interesting how Charles L seems to think GW Bush would be all for roasting witches in electric chairs... shades of WMD!!!
I have learned so much about the law through your blog! I did a little researching after someone posted something about child hearsay the other day and was interested in how it applied in your updated above. I think this is from Georgia law, but please correct me if I am wrong!
O.C.G.A. §24-3-16, 24-9-5 An out of court statement by a child
under the age of 14 years is admissible by the testimony of the person or persons to whom made
if:
the statement describes an act of sexual contact or physical abuse performed with or on
the child1 and
the child is available to testify and
the court finds that the circumstances of the statement provide sufficient indicia of
reliability.
Would this explain why testimony from the social worker was allowed but the information from the judge in TN wasn't? Because the social worker testified about a child reporting abuse and the judge's statement wasn't about a child reporting abuse? I have to say that it definately sounds fishy that the TN judge's statement wasn't let in!
@ Anon 8:53, GA law gives judges WAY too much discretion. That is one of the areas where GA varies from the rules of evidence. "sufficient indica'... wtf does that mean, really? Its blur...
The witnesses for the prosecution have ZERO credibility at this point.
Mark my words, this whole thing will end up in Federal Court. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Tonya Craft has no need to testify, and if the prosecution even mentions a word about it, GA law backs her up 100% as grounds for reversal. I say the Defense should focus on the evidence, or rather, lack of it.
If Sherry Wilson gets in my face, she and her cronies will be scraping her fat arce off the ground.
The headline says it all!
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/may/05/craft-trial-judge-refuses-allow-another-judges-rul/?local
I agree with you Lookout that Tonya doesn't need to testify, however, not knowing her personally, others have led me to believe that she is a woman of stregnth and obvious dignity. Arnt and Gregor will no doubt be on their very worst behavior.
Does anyone have a photo of Sherry Wilson, Sarah Lamb, or any of the other principles? I've seen the slime ball Henke (BLACK BELT NEGOTIATOR) on the Keller Williams site, but I'd like to see the other scum buckets
I thought the Tennessee judge's testimony wasn't let in because she went to the Nashville School of Law, which is not an accredited institution? I heard that people who went to this law school weren't allowed to practice law outside the state of Tennessee. This is such bull$hit! A judge can't testify just because she didn't go to a real law school. House is a Nazi!
Laurie Evans admitted today that she did not have a release from her doctor to start back giving therapy, she is still seeing 2 of the children. I would not want someone suffering from PTSD treating my child. I am sorry for her mental illness, but she doesn't need to be treating children when she is not well herself.
http://www.angelems.net/forums
Re:Charles L 7 Bad Bad Teachers
Surely what he posted is parody. In fact the last time someone in comments at this blog posted something from that site, I also thought it was parody.
Brian House is a good man!
I am wondering why Tonya and her husband will testify when they do not have to. How will this strengthen her case? We all know the persecution will pull some nasty games on cross, so will any benefit be worth it?
It will be interesting to see the strategy because the defense sure seems to know what they are doing.
Brian House is a good man... HHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Funniest thing I've read all day!
Brian House is nothing but an average attorney who somehow inherited a seat he does not know how to handle.
I cannot wait for a little kid to say House touched them the wrong way with Upward Sports at Peavine. Hope I am there to see it.
We need to see a picture of Lamb's and Wilson's so that we can stay away from them.
Brian House is a disgrace to attorneys and judges everywhere. He is a pompous asshole and simply a mouthpiece for the persecution. He is a laughing stock all over this nation. He is good, though, he is a good example of how NOT to act to be a fair and impartial jurist.
Amen Anon 9:44...
I do not know how this will all turn out. But I will say that we all can see what can come from a false allegation..whether it be against Tonya Craft or any of the lawyers, or even Brian House. Let's be careful not to be the ones who are slinging that mud as we will have to answer for ourselves...not anyone else.
@ anon 8:53 - as a licensed attorney in the state of Georgia (I am from Ringgold, but have an office in Sandy Springs), I believe that your analysis is absolutely correct! I'd suggest you get off of this blog and rely on less biased sources, such as Al Jazeera (www.english.aljazeera.net).
Ok so let me get this straight... the Lamb's and the Mcdonalds are CURRENTLY sending their "sexually abused" daughters to a woman who is clinically diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome?!! For families that have "everything" why not send your kids to the best? I'm just sayin!
@ Anonymous 9:40: You want to see a child get molested? Nice!
anon 9:56
Read it again... doesn't say the molestation actually occurs, just that House is accused of it.
If you want to see the little child actress is in the school talent show at Chickamauga Elem School at 6:30. If you want to see her in action. If you don't know who she is it would be fun to see if you can pick her out. I would be willing to bet you money you can.
Kerwyn,
Thanks for your good posts. As for the "hearsay" statements, it is important to remember that such statements should be documented by the interviewer. In numerous cases, the statements were NOT documented or memorialized in any way.
Thus, this is more than hearsay. It is perjury or certainly smacks of it.
Yes, this is a biased site, 9:54, yet if you want to say that what is going on in House's courtroom is not biased judging, then I would like to sell you a nice bridge in Brooklyn.
I believe that Tonya Craft has been abused and falsely charged, and I am using this site to defend her. If that makes you unhappy, then please go to Channel 9's blog, as you will like it better.
Interesting post from the Truth for Tonya Facebook page
Alisha Pennington Lee -- This evening I was minding my own business on the outskirts of Chickamauga and was verbally accosted by Mrs. "well known in Chickamauga" for wearing yellow! I was walking by and she very loudly (while on her cell phone) said "Oh, I do know someone who wore yellow today!" So I walked up to her to tell her if she had something to say to me that she say it to my face. She asked my why I would wear yellow and be against these girls. I tried to explain to her that I was not against the girls and felt sorry for them. However, I did not believe Tonya did anything to them. period! She then said I hope you heard the evidence in court today... "evidence" what evidence? LOL I have every right in this country to form my own opinion! I have not and would not as a Christian condemn anyone for having a different opinion than me. However, Mrs. "well known in Chickamauga", feels otherwise! So watch out Tonya supporters if you were yellow you may be attacked! LOL I will stand strong in support on Tonya! TRUTH FOR TONYA!
If this wasn't such serious business with the an individual's freedom hanging in the balance, it would be downright comical. It's high school drama and backbiting all over again. Will these people ever grow up?!?!?!
anon 10:04
Why would we want to stalk one of the children? Sorry, but as much as I disagree with this trial, I disagree with the idea of targeting a child. I know you're angry, but that just isn't right.
I personally don't think she did anything to hurt those children... but I also understand the importance of not destroying others.... Judge House has a wife and daughter. They should not have to pay or suffer for what he does or does not do..
Lets talk about the pain to one's family. Ms. Craft's parents have spent EVERYTHING on this trial. Ms. Craft has nothing. While I agree that targeting a bratty kid is wrong, let's not forget whose families are suffering in this.
I agree that they have suffered.... I live in the neighborhood where all this supposedly took place. I watched the news reporters go door to door and the moving trucks pack their stuff up.
Remember that House's family supports what he is doing, just as the families of Arnt and Gregor do.
Furthermore, does any member of those families give a damn as to the destruction that has been done to Tonya Craft and her loved ones? This is a big joke to House, Arnt, and Gregor. They have been seen together outside the courthouse laughing and carrying on as though this were one big comedy.
Here these men are trying to put this woman into prison for the rest of her life. Do you think they or their wives and children care about the destruction they have visited on others?
They are not innocent parties, not any more. If the wives of House, Arnt and Gregor support what their husbands are doing, then they are just as guilty as they are.
The "evidence" that House has allowed in his courtroom is disgraceful, and don't think for a minute that he, Gregor, and Arnt actually believe Tonya is guilty.
This is a big game to them. They enjoy destroying the lives of other people and they especially enjoy watching innocent people go to prison. So, if they are disbarred in the future, don't feel sorry for any of them or their families any more than you would feel sorry for the families of drug dealers going to prison.
Yeah DMK...apparently someone has actually heard or seen from real evidence. I wish they would share it. What was heard today was a nutcase social worker who will shortly lose her license in Tennessee that falsely accused her ex-husband of molesting his own child, and had a doctor diagnose her with PTDS in an effort to extort money.
Great Evidence!!!
One other thing...How did Ms. Chickamauga know what was said? Is she not still on the recall list?
My advice is to be careful. Channel 9 is running around trying to make stories out of things that do not exist.
dmk I agree with you. my point was let's hit em where it hurts- money. EX who in the world would want to live in a county where you have NO rights,Catoosa County realtors? OR why in the world would anyone shop in Catoosa County - like at the New Costco where you have NO rights when Sams is just over the state line?
dmk I agree with you. my point was let's hit em where it hurts- money. EX who in the world would want to live in a county where you have NO rights,Catoosa County realtors? OR why in the world would anyone shop in Catoosa County - like at the New Costco where you have NO rights when Sams is just over the state line?
I agree... I just can't see Judge House's wife know that he is really like this. And his daughter.. I think is about eleven.
Brian House is a pussy whipped SOB. I bet he's bisexual, an d he and Gregor and Arnt have 3sums.
Very mature.
Anon 10:10
Why not? Tonya's parents are suffering, her kids, her husband, her friends, and lots of other people that believe in her innocence.
House's family will just have to suck it up just like the defendants family is having to do. Why should they be untouchable?
Imagine Sherry Wilson in yellow. Would they have to mount one of those red stop signs to her in emulation of a school bus?
She is already been accused of following people with TTT stickers on their vehicles. Let her accost me or my family and I will own Angel EMS...
Surely Anon 10:18 his wife can read and watch the news. That is unless she only watches Channel 9.
The point I was trying to make is that as adults we make choices... that usually affect our children, ie..The Lamb's, Wilson's, Henkes, House's... etc. Bottom line is that children are children... who deserve to be protected.
I also agree that no one should target these children. They did not come up with the idea. In fact, they tried to tell the truth, but their parents and the "interviewers" and others from the CAC would not take truth for an answer.
The problem is not with the children; it is with the dishonest adults who have driven this wrongful prosecution.
I agree 100%. Mr. Anderson, what does your gut tell you will happen in the end?
Bill, I think I am dumber after having read your legal analysis of hearsay. Hearsay is an out of court statement intended to establish the truth of the matter asserted. There are various exception to the hearsay rule. Notably, in this case, is the child hearsay exception, whereby a child victim's account of physical or sexual abuse may be tendered by a third party, so long as the child is available for cross examination. NOWHERE is it written that a statement is not hearsay merely because it is documented. I can document hearsay all day long and it is still hearsay. If you go to law school and take a class in evidence, you too can have some credibility in this area. I'd suggest you have Clancy double check his horn-book before you respond!
Beautifully stated, Mr. Anderson. Thank you very much for taking the time to share this blog. Your efforts, along with a dazzling performance by the defense, may spare Tonya a lifetime behind bars for something she did not do.
Judge Learned Hand, why don't you grow a pair and tell your real name, instead of linking to the Ga Supreme Court you coward...
So, Mr. "hand," I take it that you have no problem with a prosecution witness suddenly saying, "I just remembered" and then spinning a fantastic tale that she had not memorialized when the child first allegedly said it.
Now, interviewers and social workers are taught to document everything, but that has not been done here. Yet, that is acceptable to you as "evidence"?
Furthermore, are you telling me that a document from a judge should be inadmissible as evidence? Right.
Next, you will be telling me that Dr. Nancy Aldridge is from another planet and no one ever listens to her.
So, Judge LH, we're going to keep calling a child back, so we can ask, " Is there anything else?" Your'e a phony.
The hearsay rule is a rule of evidence which prohibits admitting testimony or documents into evidence when the statements contained therein are offered to prove their truth and the maker of the statements is not able to testify about it in court. Hearsay is "second-hand" information. Because the person who supposedly knew the facts is not in court to give testimony, the trier of fact cannot judge the demeanor and credibility of the alleged first-hand witness, and the other party's lawyer cannot cross-examine him or her. Therefore, there is a constitutional due process danger that it deprives the other side of an opportunity to confront and cross-examine the "real" witness who originally saw or heard something.
Not that due process is being denied in this case already.
A recent U.S. Supreme Court Decision, Crawford v. Washington, has revised years of decisional law on the admissibility of child hearsay when the child does not testify in child sex abuse prosecutions. The unanimous decision (two justices concurring) reduces the likelihood that child hearsay can be introduced into evidence if the child does not testify.
THE REAL Judge Learned Hand quotes:
I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon law and upon courts. These are false hopes, believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there it needs no constitution, no law, no courts to save it.
I believe that the community is already in process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence, where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.
Somehow, I don't think that Brian House is interested in upholding the law. He is interested in rigging a conviction and covering for his two buddies.
Now, it is true that because of the Mondale Act, the rules for child testimony have been changed, and are a step backwards in any advance of the legal system we inherited from England. I always find it interesting that Americans define "progress" as going back to the days of the Star Chambers and people not being permitted to face their accusers.
So what will happen now? In your opinion Mr. Anderson.
This is getting ugly folks...let's remember that we are talking about CHILDREN who were taught behaviors by their parents. Children. One of the kids is her beloved daughter. Something tells me if she reads this, she would be disheartened. That's not what we want. I admittedly would like to sock a punch or two to the parents of these girls, prosecution, outhouse, but the kids are innocent victims.
I don't know. In a normal trial, it would be not guilty hands down, but I have no idea if the jury has been intimidated.
Keep in mind that the people in charge have no respect for the law and no fear of facing legal consequences. Thus, they would have no problems approaching jurors and their families. That is human nature.
So, I just don't know, and that is one reason I am discouraged. Just think, if the prosecutors and House can blow off the top authorities in this field, then they really don't care about anything but winning at all costs.
Besides, if there is jury tampering on behalf of the prosecution's team, does anyone believe that Arnt and Gregor would see indictments of anyone who tried to illegally pressure jurors to vote guilty? That is the problem: Catoosa County is lawless, as the people in charge of the law believe it is theirs to break with impunity.
And I agree with Lisa. My problem is not with the children; it is with the adults.
Correction on 10:48 I meant part of the comment thread...not Mr.Anderson's blog.
House must have supressed the evidence of the Laurie Evans/Joal Henke horizontal mamba...
I don't think anyone posting here blames the kids. It's all about the adults from the parents to Deal, the CAC, House, Arnt, and Gregor.
Okay, I am the one who wrote the first question about that Georgia Statue and I am more confused than ever.
Doesn't the statued allow people to talk about what children said to them when in involves abuse? I didn't see anywhere in that statue where it said it had to be documented - please show me where the law says that.
Also, if hearsay is something that someone said out of court and can't be cross-examined on, then why would a court order be okay? SOOOOO Confused!!! Help!
Bill, if you want to question the veracity of the evidence, go right ahead. Just because evidence does not measure up to your insane standard of credibility, doesn't mean it is hearsay. Hearsay is a legal determination to be made by the judge; veracity and witness credibility are factual issues to be determined by the trier of fact, in this case, the jury. Please, please, pretty please, have Clancy look up the difference between "hearsay" and "credible evidence" before you respond!
Hey Bill, why don't we drag your wife and kids into this?
Any professional therapist, defense attorney, or prosecuting attorney, or detective documents everything they do, whether it be a courtroom agreement, an interview with a witness, or evidence of a crime. A "Star Chamber" is manufactured evidence with no rights to the accused.
Okay, I'm starting to think this is not written in the law.
Annonymous 9:42
i have MANY pictures of Sherri Wilson, Sandra Lamb, etc. where can i send them annonymously???
A judge is still subject to review of dicretion, Learned Hand. I suggest you go home and watch some porn, jack off using your "Learned Hand"
I have found SEVERAL pictures of the alleged victim and members of her family wearing the color yellow that this little girl is apparently SO scared of
Anon on pictures,
Send to me click on my name and email, I shall post them
I keep seeing the TV showing the interview of the lame brain Laurie Evans. She needs to be relegated to asking "would you like fries with that burger" as an occupation.
Catoosa county isn't just lawless, Bill. It's also full of idiots. People in position of authority tend to get there by who they know, not by any other merit. The majority of Catoosa citizens have been complaining for very many years that if you want professional treatment about anything you go to Atlanta, Rome, or Knoxville, etc... There's very little here that the people can truly count on. My family and I wish we had never chosen to settle down roots here. As soon as we're able, we're moving far away. This is a scary place to live.
<< Anonymous said...
I thought the Tennessee judge's testimony wasn't let in because she went to the Nashville School of Law, which is not an accredited institution? I heard that people who went to this law school weren't allowed to practice law outside the state of Tennessee. This is such bull$hit! A judge can't testify just because she didn't go to a real law school. House is a Nazi!
May 5, 2010 9:19 PM >>
The Nashville School of Law is a reputable law school. I know attorney's and judges who have graduated from there with far more common sense and knowledge of the law than some who have attended Vanderbilt.
Besides that, remember House allows expert witnesses to testify as such as long as they've at least read one book and taken an online course. They don't have to know the name of the book or the author, simply having personal knowledge of reading the book is sufficient for him.
How do you know if the wives support the actions of the husbands? They certainly must know all about it, but that does not mean they agree. They may be living in a private hell. These men may handle/control things at home the same way they handle things in the courtroom. Try to imagine that--even if it was just done occasionally. A wife may be scared to say anything for fear of having the same treatment cast upon them. Would they have a chance in a custody case (those who have children)? They may be seeing a different person than the man they married. Power can change a person. I wonder if the men can flip a switch and turn it off when they step out of the courtroom. I do not know of any woman who agrees with everything their spouse believes in or does. Apparently, the Lambs do not agree with each other about what is going on either. Why else, would they be getting a divorce, now, while their daughter is going thru this. Why won't the Mrs. allow the Mr. to testify for the prosecution? To speak up for his own daughter? Makes ya wonder?
Hopefully, any children of the prosecution team are not being told anything about this trial or any other one for that matter. I would not allow my 11 year old (if I had one) to hear one word of this case. And certainly would not let them hear any criticisms about a parent. The wives and children should be off-limits unless they decide to go public with their support. Then it would be fair to take the gloves off.
WOW... I wish everyone following this case would read this article and your other articles.. Very interesting. I look forward to reading your econ anaylsis paper later this year.
Good evening Bill and all. I am a local resident of Catoosa County and have been for the bulk of my years. I read comments from this and other post's about Judge House and when will he pay for his part in this travesty. I can tell you that the people in this County are plenty pissed off at his conduct. If he runs for the seat again, he will flat out loose. I have talked to numerous residents who feel as I do. I am also going to be in court again to witness this behavior and will not rest until others know of this obstruction of justice and that is exactly what this is. Fishman
since we're on the subject of sandra lamb, i am going to say that i am appalled by the knowledge that this woman allows her young daughter to dance, behave, dress and act like a teenager! her young daughter even has a facebook profile! and that brings up even more questions in my mind... not only has sandra made her innocent daughter go through examinations that terrified me when i was a teenager, she allowed the humiliating experience of being photographed by half-wit (clueless) sexperts! and has she even TRIED to keep her daughter from the public throughout this trial??? NOOOOO! she has her on IMDB, and now allows her to have a publicly listed facebook profile.
most mothers protect their young daughters... sandra lamb is shoving her daughter into a grown up world!! i feel so sorry for her daughter... for she has been robbed of her innocence, and she has been robbed of her childhood. all at the hands of her own mother.
sandra, you disgust me. i pray every night that God will remove that child from your care, for you are not fit to be her mother.
One of the problems with the judicial system is the wording used in the laws some brainiac penned. Who in the world came up with a word like "hearsay"? Sounds like something a 2 year old would make up and get corrected for. And to make it worse, the definitions I have read make the word nearly impossible to determine what constitutes hearsay. Why don't you just call it gossip or opinion. Lawyers like to keep people confused and recite rules no lay person has ever heard using words and phrases a child in grade school would be corrected for. Example, try writing "my socks are THEREIN the drawer" and see how fast the red ink hits the test paper. Attorneys spend so much time debating who is breaking rules written in "tongues", known only to them, and objecting to every other question or comment being voiced. They actually call what they do "arguing". Children and people in the real world get called down for interrupting someone who is speaking. No wonder jurors fall asleep. Get to the point already. Get the facts on the table. Stop the pissin contests. No wonder it takes so long to get a trial date in this country. Allow both sides to present facts, put all of the evidence on the table, and allow educated people to listen to both sides, and determine punishment. Nnneexxtt...
I know that Sherry Wilson sent out a mass text today for everyone to show up at the court room because Tonia was going to testify and they needed all the support to intimidate her. Is she really that stupid to believe people still support her. Also if she is on the recall list how is she getting away with still running her mouth.
Your right "Judge" Hand you are dumber and we will leave it at that.
To Judge Learned Hand, I was under the impression ghosts only posted on the internet in fiction. A google check found the original Judge Learned Hand, born Billings Learned Hand in 1872. He died in 1961. Here's what I learned about him in a nutshell. usually called simply Learned Hand — was a famed American judge and an avid supporter of free speech, though he is most remembered for applying economic reasoning to American tort law. Hand is generally considered to be one of the most influential American judges never to have served on the Supreme Court of the United States.
Your posts seem to contradict his work. So, are you Judge Brian House hiding behind a pseudonym? Or are you someone the judge of this farce asked to do this to strengthen his position. I notice you only post when court is out.
Another great article in the Times-Free Press this morning. This journalist has done a fabulous job covering this trial.
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/may/06/jury-wont-hear-ruling-that-craft-witness-not/
I would be scared if I was Sarah Lamb's husband. First, he depends on his father-in-law, French Newton of Duplicator Supply Co in Chattanooga for his livelihood. Secondly, he is getting a divorce from French's daughter. Thirdly, if French and his daughter can trump up these charges on this defendant . . . then well, he could very possibly lose custody of his child and even have similar charges filed against him. Stranger things have happened.
Perhaps the smart thing for him to do is to come forward NOW and tell the truth. That would document his position and possibly protect him from losing his daughter. The best defense if a strong and swift offense.
word is that the lambs are getting divorced to protect their finances in case sandra gets sued...that is what's been said ...
Wow.
Upon entering court in the morning yesterday, we were forced to sit on the opposing side, due to crowd. I must say very uncomfortable! LOL....
Anywho, I must clarify that not ONE cell phone went off on this side, but TWO cellphones rang. Now, the female officer about jumped out of her skin when she heard that second phone go off, and went bench by bench to find the offender and immediately escorted she and her friend (the 1st cell phone) out...I just couldn't help but think, What? Funny thing, Dr. Lorandos said something like hmmmm, I can't even get my phone in here...to me that alone shows the favortism alone for the Prosecution side.
Now, on to the Jury. I continually watch the jury every so often, especially when I see something crazy, i.e. Laurie Evans, pun intented, :) and I must say that there was one woman, an older lady with short hair, who looked very, very angry while Laurie was avoiding Dr. L's questions..I mean it reminded me of my childhood and the look I would get when I was about to be spanked with the switch! I think she was absolutely appaled by this "professional" behavior.
Just a little ringside seat info! Keep up the good work folks!
Oh, and one other thing...we were so blessed to sit behind some of the Lamb family on the "dark" side, and besides the smiles, eye rolls at Dr. L, and snickers of sustained, they were allowed to wear the Duplicator Supply Co. logo shirts...hmmm. Pretty sure, that isn't allowed!
the blonde, gum chewing juror with bright red lipstick was nodding off all afternoon. she would change positions, and nod off again. she was trying, so it seemed, but she could not stay awake.
i hope she was tired because she was up all night the night before reading up on the case.
anon 7:27,
i would imagine that sandra lamb started that rumor herself in an effort to keep people from knowing greg left her because she is a controlling, unfaithful, dishonest wh--- who will never change.
"they were allowed to wear the Duplicator Supply Co. logo shirts...hmmm. Pretty sure, that isn't allowed!"
Are there any employees or wives of employees of Duplicator Supply Co. on the jury? Hopefully not. Otherwise that could be perceived as a threat to their livelihoods.
I see the trolls came out last night. Wow, they still don't get it. You have one claiming to be a licensed attorney in Sandy Springs (judge learned hand), but still has no clue on what the whole discussion of hearsay was regarding. Some advice for you..... please look at what the hearsay discussion is about. Also, you are the first "lawyer" who has said that they were doing things right. I believe that is because Sandy Springs is as dirty as Ringgold & Chickamauga as far as lawyers & politicians go.
So "judge learned hand" (I will not capitalize that because you do not exist), the discussion is based on the FACT that House is allowing hearsay on the prosecutions' side, but not allowing written & documented FACTS by the defense, by declaring it hearsay. If you were a real lawyer, you would agree this is completely wrong. You weren't even addressing why these comments were made. I have spoken to many attorneys & judges who have laughed hysterically at team HAG. They laugh because they know what they are doing is illegal & know they will not get away with it. All of the hearsay & perjured statements, that they knowingly allowed, will cost them EVERYTHING. I find it funny too.
On another note, after speaking to friends in law enforcement, they are all looking forward to watching Detective Deal go down. In real jurisdictions, not good old boy areas, most detectives & even officers are required to have at least a modicum of education and continually go to courses for the most updated ways to conduct an investigation.
Also, the Nashville School of Law is accredited. They have never requested to be a part of the ABA, that does not make them "non-accredited". It simply means they are looking out for their students as not increase the costs. I know many people who completed law school there, took the bar & passed. Many work in TN, but also practice in other states. No matter whether your school is a member of the ABA or not, you still have to take the bar in any state you wish to practice & you can also join the ABA after completion.
People, please stop perpetrating lies. You just make all of us who know this is a travesty, based on FACTS & EVIDENCE (the lack there of), realize that no matter what, we will have more idiots to deal with after all of this is over.
Very scary.
Truth for Tonya and all others who have been abused by this system!!!!
@KC: Oh no! You figured me out! I'm not the real Judge Learned Hand after all. Perhaps I don't post during court hours because I am Judge House. Perhaps I just have a real job and have to work for a living. Perhaps I don't have tenure and can't spend all day wasting my employer's time with mindless drivel. Thanks for the segue (that's pronounced "SEG-WAY" for all you Frostburg grads). Woop...gotta get to court! Now...where's my robe? Ahhh, there it is...sustained!
Oh Judge LH, you just confirmed that being a douche bag is a "real" job. I have made that argument for years. That is the only factual statement you have made on here. Wish you would use your real name if you are a practicing lawyer in Sandy Springs. I would like to warn my friends who live in that community to stay away from you. Funny thing is, they are all intelligent, up-standing citizens, so they probably already no to stay away.
Peace out & go do your "job". I may need to use you today just to prove it!
To "Judge Learned Hand":
You arrogant, pompous ass. You are the type of lawyer that makes the rest of us look bad. You are the of the ilk who thinks the system was made for YOUR benefit rather than to serve justice.
Yes, the people here don't know everything about the Rules of Evidence or Procedure or the ridiculous knee-jerk laws born of hysteria and the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws which undermine our system by legalizing hearsay and the like. But, they know when there is a dead stinking rat in the room and you have proclaimed yourself to be a louse on the carcass of that rat.
You speak to people at this blog as if you are some kind of High Priest of a secret society who knows all and is above the people which your profession is to serve. Instead of being a sarcastic, high and mighty snark, why don't you explain the law here in a constructive manner? Would doing that fail to properly showcase your intelligence and scholarship? Does your ego require that,instead, you must throw snark bombs to underscore how much better you are than the other people here.
If you are a lawyer who practices in the area of cases involving criminal and civil sexual abuse against children, then you should know how royally screwed up that area of the law is. You should know how unfairly the deck is stacked against defendants because of the type of "expert" witnesses the prosecution and Child Protective services use and the fact that the government wages war by bleeding defendants to economic death rather than by putting on real, tangible evidence. You should know that it is not unusual for prosecutors and CPS lawyers to move time-frames to suit their story and the like.
I don't know the details of House's rulings, but I do know that what is going on in that courtroom seems to be tarnishing the justice system in the eyes of the press who are there, the public and outsiders viewing it, as well as the people who read this "biased" (editorial) blog. You should be more concerned with the appearance this thing is creating and its impact on people's faith in the justice system.
And, by the way, the "system" is not always just and fair. That's why people, other than lawyers who profit by the system, should be able to critique it without being condescended to by an ass like you.
correction "know to stay away from you". I was in a hurry to verify your real job.
Just saw the child's picture on FB and yes lots of yellow in that costume! What kind of parent dressed their child up to look like a hooker??? I have never understood the need to make little girls grow up so fast or to put on all that makeup, when children are naturally beautiful. This child is going to be so messed up when she grows up, thanks to her mother!!!
Miss Ward, you write:
"You should know how royally screwed up that area of the law is."
Is the problem the law or the lawyers? It doesn't make sense to me to blame the attorneys working in the system if it is the system is messed up.
I asked a question yesterday about hearsay and the exception for child hearsay in sexual abuse cases. The statement was made that Judge House ruled incorrectly. But from my lay perspective, the TN judge's ruling was an opinion and it couldn't be cross-examined. Doesn't that make it hearsay? Also, the social worker reported on what a child said to her about abuse. Doesn't that fall within the exception? You are an attorney - would you mind answering my question about what the law actually says (even if it does need to be changed)?
Anon 10:01,
I don't practice in Georgia and I don't know the nuances of the law there. I do know that the law in Georgia allows hearsay statements by children in these cases, if they are present for cross-examination. just as "Judge Learned Ass" stated.
I have been practicing for 30 years and only recently got involved in cases involving child welfare. I was outraged over the taking of the over 400 kids at the Yearning for Zion ranch in Texas. I did pro bono work in the civil case for one of the fathers. Along with other attorneys who had never worked in this area, I got a real eyeful about this area of the law and the cottage industry of psychological hucksters that has risen up to feed on the carcasses of destroyed families.
As for blaming the lawyers? I was talking about the system itself. However, in the FLDS case, a lawyer for CPS waddled his fat behind into the court room with an ex parte motion, unserved on any other party, to stop discovery. When called on it, he thought that he had done nothing wrong because the prosecuting attorneys in these cases have developed the attitude that the rules do not apply to them.
Let me tell you another thing about the "lawyers" who regularly practice in this area (the civil ones), and I'm talking about the ones who live off appointments to the cases of targeted parents. I saw a few at the mass status hearings for the FLDS kids, and I have never seen a bigger bunch of sniveling weenies. Their livelihoods depend on the judges continuing to appoint them and many of the judges who swim in the swamp of these family or juvenile courts visibly favor the government in the hearings and turn the burden of proof on its head. Do you think that they continually appoint attorneys who rock the boat for their clients?
Since that case, I have been involved, pro bono, in another CPS case involving allegations of molestation. No corroborating evidence, passed a polygraph and a plesmograph, the kid has recanted twice (before being put back in the control of the state)and they still proceed.
You see, in their sick world, a recantation is a symptom of child molestation.
I spoke in an early comment about Procrustes' bed. In these types of cases, the prosecution stretches or cuts the evidence to fit their preconceived story line. It is sick, it is ungodly, it is an affront to justice.
The basic problem is that we are like the Israelites, angry at discomfort and insecurity they experienced in the desert and blaming and distrusting God who liberated them. The Israelites wanted to go back to the "security" of slavery rather than live under liberty and justice created by God. Here, we want to pass all sorts of unjust laws to protect ourselves against child molestors and terrorists because we refuse to trust the justice system given us by God, implemented into the English system by King Alfred and bequeathed to us by the colonists.
@ Jerri Lynn (if that is your real name): Judge Learned Hand is the only one that I have seen that actually has spoken substantively about the law on this blog. In fact, his comments appear to be directed at the lack of understanding people on this blog seem to have about legal issues. So, if the issue is the law itself, then why don't we engage in honest discussion about its effectiveness and overall ability to ensure justice, rather than attacking bureaucrats who are simply doing their jobs?
I have no idea whether Tonya Craft is innocent or guilty. Based on the way she has handled herself through this process, I would guess the latter. I am willing to defer to the jury for that determination, however. Regardless of that, though, I believe that she has gotten a fair trial thus far. At a minimum, she has gotten a legal trial in accordance with the Georgia rules of evidence and criminal procedure.
If the law itself is flawed, then let’s talk about it and work to change it. But I have not seen any real discussion of legal issues on this blog. I have seen honest men called “Nazis” and denigrated to the point that William Anderson himself says that they are not worthy of licking toilets. I have seen the flames of public sentiment fanned in a way that appears to be aimed at inciting violence and tearing down good people, rather than at championing the rights of anybody. I have seen threats and allegations directed at uninvolved family members, something William Anderson himself even seems to support (see his comments above). I have seen people threaten those who may have a dissenting opinion. I have seen people call people names and insult them. I have seen all these things, but I have seen no honest commentary, or even a basic understanding of the law. So yes, let’s talk about the law, if that’s what anyone here really wants to do!
@ Jerri Lynn (if that is your real name): Judge Learned Hand is the only one that I have seen that actually has spoken substantively about the law on this blog. In fact, his comments appear to be directed at the lack of understanding people on this blog seem to have about legal issues. So, if the issue is the law itself, then why don't we engage in honest discussion about its effectiveness and overall ability to ensure justice, rather than attacking bureaucrats who are simply doing their jobs?
I have no idea whether Tonya Craft is innocent or guilty. Based on the way she has handled herself through this process, I would guess the latter. I am willing to defer to the jury for that determination, however. Regardless of that, though, I believe that she has gotten a fair trial thus far. At a minimum, she has gotten a legal trial in accordance with the Georgia rules of evidence and criminal procedure.
If the law itself is flawed, then let’s talk about it and work to change it. But I have not seen any real discussion of legal issues on this blog. I have seen honest men called “Nazis” and denigrated to the point that William Anderson himself says that they are not worthy of licking toilets. I have seen the flames of public sentiment fanned in a way that appears to be aimed at inciting violence and tearing down good people, rather than at championing the rights of anybody. I have seen threats and allegations directed at uninvolved family members, something William Anderson himself even seems to support (see his comments above). I have seen people threaten those who may have a dissenting opinion. I have seen people call people names and insult them. I have seen all these things, but I have seen no honest commentary, or even a basic understanding of the law. So yes, let’s talk about the law, if that’s what anyone here really wants to do!
I think that judge lh actually identified himself... I wouldn't put it past Brian House to be on here reading... Maybe it really is him.
"In fact, his comments appear to be directed at the lack of understanding people on this blog seem to have about legal issues."
I'm not disputing that, it's his condescension that I'm criticizing.
Insofar as the law is concerned, I've already stated that I disagree with allowing hearsay from children, even if they are there to cross-examine. However, you cannot just talk about the black letter of the law, you have to talk about its implementation. The way that it is implemented by the bureaucracies to which you referred is part of my problem with the system. The way to change that is to make them more accountable up to and including repealing sovereign immunity.
Another part of my problem is legislative bodies passing laws in reaction to hysteria. We the people have to stop that.
Also, your snarky comment about my name is really rich in light of the fact that you use an alias.
On the other hand: Are you kidding me, just what about this trial has been fair? Just about everything the defense has tried to introduce has been overruled, yet whatever the prosecution has wanted to do has been allowed! The states experts are unqualified at best and absolute morons at worse. They were most unprofessional on the stand!! I personally have had dealings with many of them and they lie to suit their purposes.
And what has Tonya done, but hold her head up high and proclaim her innocence! Just what rock did you crawl out from under???
@ Jerri Lynn: my comment about your name was based on the fact that you didn't hyperlink to your website. Bad joke, I guess.
At any rate, while I'm not sure I agree with you from a policy perspective, I will concede that you have consistently attempted to speak about the legal issues. I apologize for lumping you in with the crowd in my comments. But I think the greater point is that people have to have a basic understanding of the "black letter" of the law, in order to critique it in any meaningful way. I’m getting frustrated with people who do not have this understanding making determinations about what should and should not be permissible.
Anonymous 11:07 is a good example of this. Anonymous 11:07 says that the trial is unfair because, as he points out: "Just about everything the defense has tried to introduce has been overruled, yet whatever the prosecution has wanted to do has been allowed!" Was the defense evidence admissible under the rules of evidence and procedure? Was the prosecution evidence inadmissible? Clearly he has no idea whether these were fair rulings or not. I'm not trying to beat the guy (or gal) up, I'm simply saying that he doesn't understand the law and seems to have been misled into thinking this is some sort of Nazi war tribunal. Just because the evidence may or may not favor Ms. Craft’s defense, doesn’t mean it is being admitted or disallowed unfairly. To make that determination, we would have to look at each specific ruling and determine whether it was correct or not. Only by understanding the legal basis for the evidence can we determine whether the process has been fair. Furthermore, the defense has been putting up evidence for two weeks now, so clearly not everything the defense has introduced has been held to be inadmissible. The statement itself is false.
Anonymous 11:07 is also a good example of my other point. Absolute morons? They lie to suit their own purposes? These are ad hominem attacks, plain and simple. However, I’ll agree that they acted unprofessionally, some of them anyway.
On the other Hand,
If you are a Georgia lawyer who understands the Georgia Rules of Evidence, I think that it would be wonderful for you to comment on that here. I can't tell enough about what is going on in the courtroom from the media tweets to do so. That said, the descriptions of the demeanor of the prosecutors and prosecution witnesses sound appalling to me. Also, some of the rulings sound suspect. For instance, if there really was a ruling that the defense can't ask hypothetical questions of their experts, that sounds like a pretty bad ruling. I ask hypothetical questions of my experts all the time because that is the way to elicit opinions without leading and to set a predicate. Is there some weird Rule of Evidence about that in Georgia?
Miss Ward,
I am so thankful for your kind response to my question! It was very thoughtful and passionate! You sound like a person who has seen injustice and you are working to make a difference!
May I ask you one more thing? In your first response you wrote:
"You should know that it is not unusual for prosecutors and CPS lawyers to move time-frames to suit their story and the like"
I am certain that Mr. Anderson refered to the lack of timeline in this case as a legal error on the part of the judge and prosecutors at some point. Yet in your statement it appears that this is a flaw in the law and not evidence of misconduct on their part. Is that correct.
Many, many thanks for sharing your legal expertise and giving us an education in the law!
Take care :)
The twitters on Channel 3 actually show where the defense WAS allowed to ask hypothetical questions and DID. If I can find a link I will post it.
"Yet in your statement it appears that this is a flaw in the law and not evidence of misconduct on their part. Is that correct."
I consider it to be a bad practice that, it appears, the "law" in context of court decisions and maybe statutes (I don't know) appears to allow.
I consider the following article to be one of the best studies of how these cases play out. Will Grigg is not an attorney, but he is correct about this:
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2009/05/accusers-as-victims-case-study.html
Anon 12:11, that's good. There was one ruling against them that I saw on a twitter, but I can't remember what witness.
Thanks again for your williningness to share. I will read the article. I never knew the law could be so interesting!
I was wrong. It wasn't a twitter. It was this article (
http://chattanoogan.com/articles/article_174811.asp.) that describes the defense asking hypotheticals of their expert witness.
They were allowed to ask some hypotheticals, but most were met with objections & Dr. Lorandos fought, but would change his form of questioning. He finally said after the last objection that hypothetical questions are used in the medical field & psychology to form a non-biased opinion. House sustained Arnt's objection & Lorandos moved on for just a couple of minutes. As soon as Arnt got up, he immediately asked a hypothetical, basically trying to goad an objection out of Dr. Lorandos, which happened. In turn, House overruled, then said, "he's on cross".
Compare the knowledge & professionalism of both sides of attorneys & then get back with me on who you believe is, not only more intelligent, but understands the law and how it is supposed to work. This is why Arnt & Gregor are trying to go with low blows & character assassination rather than facts. The defense team in this case is brilliant. Actually, they are a step above brilliant. Notice how everything they do is going somewhere. It will all come together in the end. You do not have to be an attorney to know right from wrong or even to follow a trial, you simply have to put your listening ears & your seeing eyes on & you will see the truth. Take out everything you have read on blogs or on Twitter, then when the actual court transcripts come out & you are able to see everyday of video, then you will see.
This is actually part of being a human in a functioning society.
Most lawyers, judges & anyone who has ever been inside a courtroom knows what is happening here is wrong & not how a courtroom is supposed to be. They are trying to make a joke out of this trial & are actually enjoying themselves. That is not justice, that IS narcissism.
@ Jerri Lynn: Yes, I am a licensed attorney in the state of Georgia. As I said before, I have an office in Sandy Springs, near Atlanta, but I have family that lives in Ringgold, and that has piqued my interest in this case. As for your questioning about “hypothetical questions,” I don’t think that Georgia is much different from anywhere else in that respect, although I went to law school in Georgia and have never practiced anywhere else. So I really don’t know how the system might work elsewhere.
That being said, I have found the following series of “twitter” updates from Melydia Clewell and Callie Starnes, and I assume this is what you are referring to in your question. (I have reversed the order from the webpage for easier reading, but you may access this at http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=12415069).
Update 4:15pm
Dr. Lorandos asking Dr. Aldridge about social worker standards. Dr.
Aldridge being asked about depositions taken during Tonya Craft's custody battle.
Lorandos asks Aldridge if social worker is mentally ill should she continue to treat kids. She says no.
Dr. Lorandos now asking what PTSD is.
Update 4:30pm
Dr. Lorandos weaving a web of hypothetical situations about a hypothetical social worker.
Dr. Aldridge says the hypothetical social worker Dr. Lorandos is describing would need to stop working immediately.
Dr. Lorandos now describing this "hypothetical" social worker as having a financial stake in case.
This "hypothetical" person is mentally ill, messy divorce, in it for the $, and was determined by a judge not fit.
ADA Chris Arnt stands up, slams his book on the table, and approaches the bench w/objection.
Judge House tells Dr. Lorandos not to go there with the "hypothetical" judge finding social worker unfit. Sustained.
Arnt objects again, says he will object to every "hypothetical" from here out.
Dr. Lorandos says he's entitled to ask ?'s. House sustains, and references a prior order.
Dr. Lorandos takes books back to desk, consults defense team, says he's finished with witness. ADA Chris Arnt up on cross.
Update 4:40pm
Arnt begins w/ a "hypothetical" ? about a social worker ignoring subpoena. Lorandos objects. House overrules. House once again justifies his overruling by saying, "he's on cross".
Arnt and Dr. Aldridge know one another, they have a working relationship. Interesting Arnt hasn't made the connection in court.
Court taking a break. House to jury:"Can you stick around until we get rid of this one?" Court laughs. Cross will wrap today.
If you look at Dr. Lorandos’
questioning, his series of “hypotheticals” appear to have nothing to do with Dr. Aldridge’s area of expertise, and more to do with some “hypothetical social worker” who was mentally ill, had a messy divorce, arguably had a financial stake in the case, and apparently refused subpoenas at some point in time. Lorandos wasn’t asking hypothetical questions with respect to her stated expertise. It looks to me like he was trying to impeach a witness who wasn’t even there to testify.
So, it appears that Judge House wasn’t saying Arnt could ask hypotheticals on cross, but Lorandos couldn’t on direct. It appears that he was allowing Arnt to question the defense witness about subject matter that may have been inadmissible but for defense counsel “opening the door.”
Clearly, I am relying on a twitter update here for my information, but a full transcript of the trial proceedings will not be available for quite some time. If this is what you were referring to, I think you’ll agree that the Judge’s rulings made sense.
And the **** just hit the fan.
Not that you agree with the ruling, of course, but just that it made sense given the actual testimony...or what we can gather from twitter, anyway.
Other Hand,
That looks like a hypothetical about the ethics and licensing requirements binding a social worker. I don't know Dr. Aldridge's qualifications to testify to that. If she supervises social workers, she may be qualified to speak to it.
On the Other Hand: You say you've watched this case and that "according to the way she's handled herself" you believe Tonya guilty. Why? B/c she was outraged and upset about the allegations? B/c she won't back down? B/c of the gross lack of evidence proving her guilt? B/c of the fact she isn't afraid to face her accusers? B/c she's angry for 2 years of her life being robbed from her by false allegations?
I mean, I could definitely understand your opinion if she'd tucked tail and run or shied away from the media, accusers or either of the two polygraphs that she passed without a single deviation. But, otherwise, you just sound like a friend of Team HAG. You bring up the legal aspect of this case. In any other REAL court, in any other REAL county in this country if the State could not bring anything more than hearsay to the bench and inconsistencies in testimony OR if 2 of the "alleged victims" testified under oath that they LIED and the other "alleged victim" were an actress, I dare say that the case would have never even lasted half a day, forget about 19!
You seem to be making the mistake so many others are & getting caught up in the hysteria of the case label "child molestation" instead of looking at fact. Fact is there are NO facts to support these allegations. Fact is, no matter how much Team HAG is trying to super fuel their now laughable careers, they are only harassing an innocent woman.
At least now we know where not to go if by some horrible twist of fate any of us is ever in need of good counsel...Just saying.
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